Engine Oil Filters.

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GeoffDEAL
Posts: 424
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:25 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by GeoffDEAL » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:58 am

HI baron beeza the Sakura EO-30120 mentioned in my thread above fits with a suitable washer on top only to get a small amount of crush as mentioned there are two types of housing lids, the washer i used was from a Z9 filter non return washer this is a common screw on filter used on Ford Falcons Case DB tractors and was from a used one i cut open this washer on top of the Sakura makes a good fit as it is a bellows type of washer is similar to original filter set up and is in my 25D. The cork washer filters were sold by DB service agents throughout NZ as correct replacement filters as well as later on the filters with rubber bellows end seals.

baron_beeza
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Location: NZ

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by baron_beeza » Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:51 am

Hi Geoff, thanks for the reply. I had you in mind as I am coming over that way in the next few days. I was hoping to pick up a filter in ChCh on the way home.

That gives me a few days to clean things up here and get ready to put it back together.

I was somewhat surprised to see how short this element was, I am not sure you mentioned the length or the thickness of packers in previous posts here. Your comments have been helpful and I don't intend to reinvent the wheel.

For others reading I can put some perspective on our situation and stance.
For me to import a filter element it is likely to cost about one half as much as I paid for the complete tractor. Indeed I now have two of these things and total outlay has been a little over
$100. (The cost to me.)

The filter I will end up buying is likely going to be $20. That is more than enough for something that is rarely used.

I work on aeroplanes, some of which have rudimentary lubrication systems. The David Brown filters are miles way more efficient than some of those planes. Here are pics of the suction and pressure filters of something like a Piper Cub.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Those old tractors have been chugging away just fine for the past 60 years. They won't be needing too much to be spent on them to keep them going for another 20 or more.

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GeoffDEAL
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by GeoffDEAL » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:24 am

Hi baron beeza the Sakura EO-30120 filter only needs around 3 to 4 mm spacer on top only i found the used neoprean non return washer i got from the old screw on filter mentioned to be a perfect spacer and is in operation. South Island Filters should have the Sakura filter 22 Racecourse Road Sockburn near Sockburn end of road good people reasonable price their email info@sifilters.co.nz to be sure they have one. Also Trans Diesel are Sakura suppliers 533 Halswell Junction Road Hornby CHCH. When fitting the filter there needs to be around .025 " crush when fitting the housing lid they originally had a paper gasket and i still make one for it. cheers Geoff

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db2d
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Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by db2d » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:55 pm

The original DB lid gasket was cork.

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GeoffDEAL
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by GeoffDEAL » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:52 pm

Hi db2d the ones i have come across were all paper including DB gasket sets, but i noted in pictures in above thread it appeared just gasket seal had been used which would make the crush different slightly more, would be somewhat less with cork gasket however all would work provided some small amount of crush is observed on fitting.

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GeoffDEAL
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Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by GeoffDEAL » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:57 pm

Hi baron beeza ph number for South Island Filters is 033482776 .

baron_beeza
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Location: NZ

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by baron_beeza » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:30 pm

Thanks Geoff. I may have jumped the gun and believed all you said yesterday.

I am a Supercheap cardholder and they could post one out free courier. I have a Sakura one plus a filter for the Commodore on the way already.

https://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/p/saku ... 74643.html

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db2d
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Location: Monmouthshire

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by db2d » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:55 pm

The filter in the link is not suitable unless modifications are made to the sealing areas. No one has found a direct cross match for the original without some form of modification. If modifications have to be made it is not a direct cross match. Some people are able to adapt parts to their own specification others may not wish to do this.
This topic is going in a circle.

baron_beeza
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Location: NZ

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by baron_beeza » Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:41 am

It will be fine Cliff. I want to have the engine running within a few days and any old filter will do that job.

We are not going to pay half the price of a tractor and wait weeks for a part that makes no difference whatsoever. We do the same with aircraft, it only takes a little paperwork and a few minutes on a lathe to come up with a cheap alternative. The tractor will run exactly the same with a $20 filter as it would with something costing 5 to 10 times the price.

Once the filter arrives I will probably spend some time on the lathe to make an end boss that will accept standard 'O' rings that can be popped in. I think we can all agree that area down the bottom is the problem. All we need is a path for the oil to enter and feed up around the outside of the element. It is essential we have a good seal against the outlet tube to prevent any bypass leakage. It is only the differential pressure we are dealing with though.

The filter P/N used will be identified by engraving on the boss or possibly on a tag secured by one of the top bolts.

It is pointless persevering with something that can't be easily obtained just because it may be the correct P/N. We would be far better off choosing an easily obtainable filter and making a kit, or providing dimensions, for an adapter. It seems to be exactly how the 140mm long filters got to be fitted in the first place. I am sure i can come up with something better than a large chunk of cork stuck at each end.

I have an oil in the frame BSA motorbike, a B50. It transpires that there was a design flaw in the circulation of oil within the frame. BSA did nothing about it for two years and it was only when they fitted the Triumph 500 twin engine in the same frame did they react. The solution was as easy as fitting a washer on the dipstick. It was welded on about halfway down and when inserted blocked off the shortcut the circulating oil had previously been taking. Some of these things were not thought out so well originally. There will still be B50 bikes getting about with the original, and abysmal, system.

These old tractors are 60 years old, you would have thought an improved filter kit would have been readily available by now. Something better than a wad of cork, I mean.
There are any number of after-market mod kits available for those aircraft engines that originally had just the rock-screens.

baron_beeza
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:25 pm
Location: NZ

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by baron_beeza » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:09 am

Further to the BSA problem. This is an example of how poorly thought out they designed things.

The pic shows another mod that was a way around the problem.
We made up a tube and punched it into the frame to block the hole and force oil to circulate through the top frame portions.
I made a number of those out of alloy and sold them to owners, a friend from the States came up with the idea.

Originally the oil return came out of that elbow and plopped directly into the hole in that top tube. The hole was for the dipstick and was also above the front downtube.

Invariably the circulating oil, on the original bikes, just went through the engine and front downtube.
By blocking that hole the oil was forced to circulate through the top frame portions as well.
Once again just a little thought, and a few minutes on the lathe, completely transformed the operation of the engine.

Image

baron_beeza
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Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:25 pm
Location: NZ

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by baron_beeza » Fri Sep 06, 2019 5:56 am

I was out cleaning up the old filter housing and making measurements. Following on from what Geoff and Cliff, among others, have been saying I can see the problem area more clearly now.

My old element was not only too short but I can see the internal diameter was also too big. At 35mm it was relying on the flat ends to seal. While the top is no problem the bottom has to accommodate the outlet tube. The top just needs to be a seal across the top surface.

I was going to try and seal across the flat bottom with an adaptor but soon realised there is no longer going to be room with the 158mm long element. Following on from that and re-reading Geoff's comments I think I can see what he has done.
The Sakura specs show the ID to be 31mm. From the internal bore of the old cork packer I removed I think that central spigot must be very close to that.
Geoff will confirm but I am assuming the 30120 must seal at the hole as opposed to the end-plate. ie the inner portion of the seal as opposed to the end. Possibly both.

I am not sure about the David brown element being marketed but the bellows ends may just accommodate both.

I am working on the theory that whatever worked for Geoff will get me going also. Economy and time are both factors in my situation.


Image

http://www.sakurafilters.com.au/shop/item/eo-30120

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GeoffDEAL
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Location: New Zealand

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by GeoffDEAL » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:52 am

Hi baron beeza the sealing washer on the 30120 is fine for the bottom just needs the extra sealing washer at the top to the lid, while dismantling the old screw on filters i came across the non return washers which are a near perfect fit for top of 30120 filter to the lid, you should have just a little crush with the lid. the Z9 old filter was one of the most popular filters to Ford tractors cars Chyrsler and fits all DB tractors with screw on filters, the Holden screw on filter probably has the same non return washer so plenty of used filters to get washers from. cheers Geoff

baron_beeza
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:25 pm
Location: NZ

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Post by baron_beeza » Sat Sep 14, 2019 2:19 am

I am very satisfied with the fit of the new filter.

I cut open three filters and retrieved the neoprene seals from each. The first was the black seal seen in the pics. The next was a common aircraft filter and didn't seem to be what I was seeking. The third also showed promise and it came from the Supercheap one fitted to the Commodore. The orange coloured seal.

The black seal fitted snugly down the bottom of the canister and was perfect in so many respects. The inner dia was exactly what was required to seal about the spigot and the little ring on the top inner surface slotted nicely into a groove on the filter, hidden behind the felt seal.
It was of such a compound that the flat surfaces would also be sealing, very much belt and braces there.
I was definitely going to use that and accept whatever for the top.

It turned out that the filter compressed down with gentle hand pressure, 1 or 2mm with a bellows type feel.
That left it slightly below flush at the top.
The orange seal also fitted perfectly at the top and again had a nice soft feel to it. The inner dia was again perfect for the filter although in this case it didn't need to be.
With the combination I had to use a paper gasket with a little Loctite gasket goo for the top plate.

Much better than the existing arrangement with the cork ends, both of which had settled and hardened over time.

I just poured new oil about the outside of the filter to refill the canister before fitting the top.

The only thing I haven't measured yet is the bypass valve operation and setting. I did read it was going to be about 15 psi. The engine will only be run in mild weather and with modern multigrade oils I am not expecting much oil to ever bypass the filter anyway.
Attachments
IMG_20190909_132126.jpg
Bottom seal showing upper surface.
IMG_20190909_132126.jpg (74.65 KiB) Viewed 67 times
IMG_20190909_132138.jpg
Lower surface.
IMG_20190909_132138.jpg (60.34 KiB) Viewed 67 times
IMG_20190911_114447 (1).jpg
Lower surface of the top seal. Filter above flush without the bottom seal being compressed.
IMG_20190911_114447 (1).jpg (110.51 KiB) Viewed 67 times
IMG_20190911_114433.jpg
Filter and seals ready for end plate.
IMG_20190911_114433.jpg (99.8 KiB) Viewed 67 times

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