DB1212

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ollek
Posts: 3796
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:20 pm
Location: South West Finland

Post by ollek » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:01 pm

Wrong again Powerrabbit. The official conversion figure between DIN horsepower (PS) and Imperial brake horsepower (bhp) is 0,9863. This will give 89,75 bhp for the 91 DIN hp engine in a 1410/1412. This looks like a typing error, you said 69,73 bhp and the correct figure is 89,75 bhp (89 not 69). Please stop arguing and do as Scooby have told you to. And can you at the same time please apologise for your false information's about differences between different engines. And by the way, bhp has been history for many years and should not be used anywhere any longer.

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case-ih1594
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Location: Preston

Post by case-ih1594 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:42 pm

Hi, 69hp engine would be tiny in a 1412. I think the 1200 was 67hp when introduced, before being updated to 72hp for that reason.

A Hydra-shift gearbox would also drain the power significantly. I think the 1410/1412 was comparable, and competed, with the Ford 7000 (97hp).

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tomwill
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:33 pm
Location: Australia.

Post by tomwill » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:55 pm

broadsword wrote:I`d recommend one of them `big` Chamberlains Tom. :wink: .

Good Luck

Andy
Yes Andy I spent a lot of time on one back in the 1960s tough but rough not refined like a DB.Cheers TOM

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tomwill
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:33 pm
Location: Australia.

Re: DB1212

Post by tomwill » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:06 pm

tomwill wrote:Hello everyone Xmas is closing in fast, I thought I might buy myself another DB looking at a DB1212 looks very clean and straight[white and orange]I do not think it will much money as to the area it is in, any comments on this model, I know the hydra shift can be an issue as out in this country some fellows could not drive a billy cart !!! Cheers TomWill DBTCA
Heres something for all us DB tractor fellows for Xmas,I pulled my DB990 Impematic into the local seed and grain place to get it weighed the chap came out and saw it and said these DBs they supposed to be the ROLLS ROYCE of tractors aren't they.TW

Scooby
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:16 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Post by Scooby » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:23 pm

case-ih1594 wrote:Hi, 69hp engine would be tiny in a 1412. I think the 1200 was 67hp when introduced, before being updated to 72hp for that reason.

A Hydra-shift gearbox would also drain the power significantly. I think the 1410/1412 was comparable, and competed, with the Ford 7000 (97hp).

The 1200 was DBs first long tractor that looked the part but hadn't quite got enough grunt but was much better when pushed up to 72hp. I was always told that the fuel pumps on Hydra-Shift tractors were tweaked for another 3-4 hp to drive the HS.
ImageImage


Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

Scooby
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Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:16 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Re: DB1212

Post by Scooby » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:25 pm

tomwill wrote:Heres something for all us DB tractor fellows for Xmas,I pulled my DB990 Impematic into the local seed and grain place to get it weighed the chap came out and saw it and said these DBs they supposed to be the ROLLS ROYCE of tractors aren't they.TW
Buy that man a drink Tom. :D
ImageImage


Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

Scooby
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Location: Warwickshire

Post by Scooby » Thu Dec 03, 2015 9:46 pm

Scooby wrote:
I was always told that the fuel pumps on Hydra-Shift tractors were tweaked for another 3-4 hp to drive the HS.
Quoting myself above but Alan Kellett the well respected DB man has emailed today with the following :

Back in the early seventies engine power was measured by two standards,Deutsch Industrie Norm,DIN and Society of American Engineers,SAE.
DIN was measured with all engine power consuming ancilliaries ,alternator,power steering pump etc.,fitted.
SAE was measured with a bare engine. Thus DIN was the more representative of the two standards and by the early seventies was gradually replacing SAE as the norm in all the advertising tractor manufacturers literature.
However old habits always died hard at Meltham and nowhere more so than on the factory floor.Thus when the engines mono railed from assembly into engine test they were bare with no alternator,power steering pump etc.Each engine was then installed on one of approx 12 dyno test beds and run in and power tested in a 55 minute session.This was the only time factory power test was done.
In the case of the 4/55 minimec in line pumped engine which powered the 1210/1212 two different max fuel settings were required to cope with the different transmissions. The 1212 had the Hydrashift which parasitically absorbed 3 hp more than the synchro unit fitted to the 1210.
Thus at the dyno end power test the pump rack stop screw would be adjusted by the tester to give 72 hp on engines destined for 1210 tractors and 75 hp on engines destined for 1212 tractors. The 3 hp difference to compensate for the Hydrashift additional power requirement.The rack stop was then lock wired by the tester ,the engine inspected by one of the two test house inspectors,Philip and John and then despatched four at a time down to R block final assembly.
This selective pump adjustment ensured that irrespective of transmission spec both the above models would give 64 hp on the pto although no such test was done at the factory. Later on ,the same procedure was implemented on the 1412/1410 tractors so the former developed 94hp at the flywheel and the latter 91hp
ImageImage


Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

broadsword
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Location: Holmfirth, Huddersfield

Post by broadsword » Fri Dec 04, 2015 12:01 am

Interesting one this - as a car man at heart I`ve come across various auto boxes with various levels of power loss (the old fluid torque convertor) some worse and better than others, auto boxes always seem to be over-revving in nature
Driving a 1394 Hydro towing the cars off track at the Stock car meetings at Coventry apart from changing up when you detect a slight slip I assumed once they had engaged they were then on constant drive (ie locked up like a manual box??) - is this the case or do they have a slight slip (power loss like a torque convertor) when in normal use - I`ve never yet come across it noticeably when towing a banger off and pushing two in front at the same time!! - I assumed it was then locked up - if not its a mighty impressive gear system.

Thanks for the usual info Alan which is always a real treat on here and to Scooby (David) for posting up as well.

Cheers

Andy.

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ollek
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Location: South West Finland

Post by ollek » Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:32 am

The Hydra Shift gear box drives like a normal gear box once the selected gear has engaged. There is no slip during normal driving and the gear box does not work like a turbine or torque converter. A faulty gear box is however a different story. The power loss is because of the additional hydraulic pump and that driving planetary gears takes a little more power.

Scooby
Posts: 3927
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:16 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Post by Scooby » Fri Dec 04, 2015 6:29 am

ollek wrote:The Hydra Shift gear box drives like a normal gear box once the selected gear has engaged. There is no slip during normal driving and the gear box does not work like a turbine or torque converter. A faulty gear box is however a different story. The power loss is because of the additional hydraulic pump and that driving planetary gears takes a little more power.
Just to clarify the above remarks, "slippage" can occour if, as I mentioned earlier, the oil seals within the packs have become hardened with age. If they are allowed to warm up then they presumably become more pliable and are able to do their job.
I have no intimate knowledge about the HS boxes but I was told about this by Barcley Williams who, as some of you will know, is considered an expert on them with his own test bed to run them up on after he or Stuart have serviced them. In fact, the test bed is a wonderful thing to see because laymen like me get to understand what is happening inside there.
ImageImage


Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

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ollek
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Location: South West Finland

Post by ollek » Fri Dec 04, 2015 7:12 am

Yes Scooby, you are right about the possibly hard O-rings in the multiplate coupling pistons. Slippage in different gears during normal driving can also happen if the pressure relief valve is sticking, pipes and connectors are leaking, the pump inlet screen is blocked or the pump is badly worn. That is why I said "A faulty gear box is however a different story".

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tomwill
Posts: 483
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:33 pm
Location: Australia.

Re: DB1212

Post by tomwill » Sat Dec 26, 2015 10:18 pm

tomwill wrote:Hello everyone Xmas is closing in fast, I thought I might buy myself another DB looking at a DB1212 looks very clean and straight[white and orange]I do not think it will much money as to the area it is in, any comments on this model, I know the hydra shift can be an issue as out in this country some fellows could not drive a billy cart !!! Cheers TomWill DBTCA
Hello there I missed out on the 1212 it was passed in at 5000 dollars so they can keep it !!!. now I have switched to look at buying a 1962 series 2 DB950 well it looks better than factory however they did not have 2 pac paint back then.Cheers and happy new year.TW DBTCA

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