2014 Hay making

This is for Members to post their photos. Ideally DB but also Member's photos of working with tractors etc. Inappropriate photos will be deleted and the Member posting them may be banned from this Forum.

Moderators: Segrie61, admin

User avatar
mjallum
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Berkshire

2014 Hay making

Post by mjallum » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:10 pm

The first of this years hay making, 146 years of British Engineering not counting the Class baler
Attachments
ThreesomeJune2014.jpg
ThreesomeJune2014.jpg (204.71 KiB) Viewed 9971 times
DB 1200 4WD & 1390
Leyland
Nuffield 4/60

User avatar
faf
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:46 pm
Location: ireland

RE: 2014 Hay making

Post by faf » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:17 am

Hi

That's a cracking picture, thank you for posting, there is something about those 1200fwd that is intriguing. How many were built and how many still living? There are a few threads on the website with them alright ... Just wondering

Faf

User avatar
holstein
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:38 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by holstein » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:58 am

Thanks for posting the photo. Very interesting. But I wouldn't get too excited about Land Rover and their engineering. Sure enough, the original idea in 1948 was very good but why on earth didn't they improve on it ? I owned a few of them and have worked on them extensively and the engineering was rubbish.

That's why they are ceasing production of them when 4wd trade-type vehicles from the Far East are pouring into the UK.

Go to the Motoring Museum at Gaydon in Warwickshire and there is a prototype LR short wheel base pickup in there that is kitted out like the Jap pickups. Lecky windows, curved screen, Disco-like inside. Why the hell didn't they make it ?

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:57 am

Land Rover, from the first ones in 1948 right up to the present but not including the current Range Rover and Discovery models have, like David Brown were, an innovative bit of engineering that worked, was efficient and needed no dramatic changes to the original design because it was in effect not able to be improved on, that is why they had and still have a Worldwide reputation and following being supplied not only to the general population but to nearly every Countries military forces. The only Land Rover model due to be discontinued is the Defender, this is not due to the influx of Foreign 4x4 vehicles nor is it anything to do with the engineering, it's because the chassis does not now conform to European crash test safety legislation, Range Rover and Discovery has been re-engineered to comply with this, a new Defender is on the cards. The Land Rover was and still pretty much is the only utility vehicle legally permitted to tow 3500Kg (4000Kg with coupled brakes) whereas a lot of these Japanese and other foreign pickups can only legally tow 500 to 1000Kg. The Defender as it is, is still going to be produced in South Africa using the 300TD1 engine. There's nothing wrong with a Land Rover, very simple to work on and repair, parts are relatively cheap and available for all models and as long as you know how to drive them in certain given conditions they won't be beaten. A neighbour of mine recently went back to an older Defender after his brand new Mitsibushy 4x4 pickup broke down, he was quoted over £2000 for the replacement part and would need to wait 7 weeks for it to be imported and then another 2 for it to be fitted. The prototype at Gaydon was not put into production because of the cost and lack of potential market for such a vehicle at the time, and like any other prototype vehicle, things change along the way so the concept gets shelved. There are a lot of comparisons between D.B and LR.

broadsword
Posts: 1707
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Holmfirth, Huddersfield

Post by broadsword » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:24 pm

Funny how the Australians who may have to drive vast mileages across the outback and will not see another vehicle or soul in that time all seem to run Toyota HiLuxs and Landcruisers.

You`d think they`d all be running Land Rovers with all there reliability and quality engineering :roll:

Cheers

Andy

User avatar
case-ih1594
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 10:38 am
Location: Preston

Post by case-ih1594 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:13 pm

Hmmm. Yes - the United Nations (UN) also seem to have the vehicles broadsword mentions. The Land Rovers of old may be very reliable, but it seems anything in recent years (post mid 1990's) somehow lost it market share and reputation. Overseas 4x4's took over and you hardly ever see Land Rovers now, even at farm auction markets.

Sadly I would struggle to find anyone around here prepared to defend (excuse the pun) a post 1990 Land Rover. Having said that, the EU emissions and regulations / need to go electronic means that foreign machines are little better.

A good 1990's defender would be a good investment - if you could find one, run it for a few years until it is taxed off the road.

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:31 pm

LR did not crack the Australian market for the simple reason that the shipping costs because of the distance and import duties put too high a price on them and other 4X4's from Japan and America were imported being closer to Australia and consequently the shipping and importation costs were lower, nothing to do with engineering. The UN and other such organisations use the vehicles Andy mentions mainly on a National relations and International trading agreement basis rather than preference of either cost, engineering or reliability, you buy my products and I'll buy yours. I understand that they're bringing back the 25 year road tax exemption, anyone else heard about it?

John_Allen
Posts: 1894
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:59 pm
Location: Cumbria UK

Post by John_Allen » Thu Jun 26, 2014 4:49 pm

Beats my trio's 130 years: '69 780, '71 Land Rover and '72 995!

There was an advert in Australia that said something like "Go off road in a Land Rover". The Australians' response was "Get back with a Landcruiser". I suspect that backs up Andy's theory!

As I am nicely stuck in a little preventative maintenance on my '71 mongrel (2a chassis, S3 bulkhead, Montego diesel engine), I can see an awful lot of little things that Land Rover could have done forty years ago and didn't. That's how the Japanese stuff broke into the market - they made what people wanted and Land Rover (because of it's unique "oddball" position in Leyland, couldn't afford to update and innovate. A friend who has a Mistubishi Delica has just bought a newer one as Land Rovers can't do what his Delicia does (it's a Tonka-toy based on a Shogun mechanicals). At least it has THREE diff locks - and can run in 4WD on the road if necessary.

How was Land Rover innovative? It was based on a Jeep design and used aluminium because it wasn't "rationed" like steel was (pity the chassis was steel though - my weldathon might have been less intensive!). It might have helped if they had considered galvanising the chassis - there is a good trade in those these days!

There are a lot fewer Land Rovers in MOD (etc) hands these days as they aren't capable of providing adequate protection against mines and other nasty devices. Land Rover were in a bad place in the 70's as BL didn't know what to do with them (not cars and not wagons), so didn't invest. They never recovered until BMW took over. Japanese stuff was more advanced and nicer to drive (even if Subarus rotted rather too quickly). Admit it, you wouldn't want to go far in a Series Land Rover - but you could with a Subaru (I nearly used the nickname...) and do so at 70MPH (and more - as I found by accident!)

Having said all that, I look forward to getting my Land Rover sorted (and out of the garage!) and have deliberately avoided the soft option - who wants coil springs anyway?!

Image

More photos here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cumbriant ... 478947794/

I could have bought a very nice 1995/6 Defender for less money - but had to pay for tax!

User avatar
case-ih1594
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 10:38 am
Location: Preston

Post by case-ih1594 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:24 pm

Hi, in response to Powerrabbit's 25 year tax exempt question.

It was abolished (very discreetly) 15 years ago (1999) by Gordon Brown. However it has been re-introduced - but from now (2014) onwards, in other words it is now a '40 year' exemption rather than '25 year' exemption.

User avatar
holstein
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:38 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Post by holstein » Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:40 pm

Ah Mr. "Powerabbit" so LR was/is good engineering is it ? I am only talking about what was known as a LR, or Defender, call it what you will. I have no experience of Discos, RRs, & the rest.

I owned several LRs for business. And you honestly think that the 2 1/4 litre diesel was good engineering ? Give me a break will yer. I always reckoned that it was the petrol engine with injectors instead of plugs, a fuel pump instead of a distibutor, and when it wouldn't start they had to put heater plugs in it. And because of the ridiculous comp. ratio you could crack the head. I know this for a fact because I had a drinking buddy on the test side at LR and he said that they had actually cracked a head using ar**hole start.

And never mind about the driver and his back, we'll just put a few rough leaf springs on them and some miserable little shocks. And although the body was ally that didn't really matter because the steel outriggers on the chassis would rot through in no time. And by the time that happened the chassis was going as well.

I always bought the SWB LRs because sometimes I didn't have an acre and a half to turn the 109s round in and anyway the 109s were a pig of a towing vehicle.

And they weren't the best off-road either. I used to shoot quite a bit and quite a few times I have seen Subaru pickups go where a LR wouldn't. That's why I bought one of those as well. But they were just not big/powerful enough for what I wanted so I have been running Jap stuff for years now.

Good engineering ???? yes, just like Mr. Bean and his funny machine.

Guest

Post by Guest » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:08 pm

Each to his own.

I think this ought to be brought to a halt now and have a bit of respect for the OP and not hijack his original thread further and return to the subject.

1200 4WD Selene axle, no numbers of were recorded as far as I know, they were built to order on the same line as the rest of the 1200's so were incorporated in with the rest.

User avatar
case-ih1594
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 10:38 am
Location: Preston

Post by case-ih1594 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:26 pm

Hi, yes the picture is great. The 1200 is a nice machine, and especially good in 4WD. I think the large, heavy, cumbersome axles have a certain charm. They were the pioneers of 4WD in their day and still capable now. Sadly parts hard to find, but imagine fixing a modern tractor in 40 years time.

User avatar
mjallum
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:00 pm
Location: Berkshire

Post by mjallum » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:42 pm

I have heard it said that appox 300 1200 4WD were built but I imagine that we will never know for sure. As to how many have survived I simple do not know. If you search the net there are pictures of around a dozen or so.
The one a learnt to drive on was due for export and was brought back from the docks at Southampton as the farmer threatened to cancel his order.It taken me 40 years to fulfill my dream of owning one and I had to pay well over the top for it, but who knows when another will turn up for sell
They do have tremendous traction when fully ballasted but as others have mentioned the turning circle is not good, but neither is our Land rover.
Also they do not make good baling tractors as the logic of gear selection leaves a lot to be desired. I usually use the Leyland which is much more nimble has just the right gear and is far faster on the road.
Hopefully the 1200 pictured will undergo a full rebuild soon, I just need to finish a Nuffield first.
DB 1200 4WD & 1390
Leyland
Nuffield 4/60

User avatar
case-ih1594
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 10:38 am
Location: Preston

Post by case-ih1594 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:59 pm

Hi, greats stories. I think that the tractor would look great with a front grill, and left as it is. Repainting a tractor is ok as long as the job is done well (100%), as I think something is lost when the 'factory paint' is removed. The tractors came out of the factory with that very paint, and it should be retained unless there is a compelling need and no alternative.

broadsword
Posts: 1707
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Holmfirth, Huddersfield

Post by broadsword » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:42 pm

Have to agree with case-ih1594 with perhaps the addition of a good well worn front grille - takes 40 years to get that Leyland and DB looking like that, once they are painted up its takes another 40 years to get them in that condition.

Cheers

Andy

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest