police and the tractor driver

The place to discuss all matters relating to David Brown Tractors. You will need to register your user name before you can post. If you have already registered could you please make sure that your location details have been completed. Go to My Account in the Main Menu on the left, and then go into "Edit Your Information" and complete your location details. Give the Country (and State/Province if you wish) if outside the U.K. County if within the U.K. Location details helps other members if you need spares, technical advice, or the nearest practical help.

DISCLAIMER -

David Brown Tractor Club Ltd
Forum/website Disclaimer

1. This [forum/website/chat room] and the advice and opinions expressed herein is not a solution for mechanical, electrical, valuations, other problems, breakdowns or issues experienced in relation to the vehicles referenced.

2. If reliance is thought to be placed on any of the information guidance or input provided such information will be expressly confirmed as appropriate to be relied upon.

3. In the absence of any such confirmation no reliance should be suggested or inferred.

4. Members must not disclose information to 3rd parties in anticipation that reliance will be given by non-members.

5. Non-members must not purport to give advice on behalf of David Brown Tractor Club.

6. If you or someone you know is experiencing difficulties or repeated breakdowns you must seek assistance for an appropriately qualified expert who holds themselves out as such.

7. Any comments are free of charge and made or posted on an ex gratia basis. No member or non-member may advertise their professional services

Any user inactive for more than 3 months will automatically be deactivated, please contact admin@dbtc.co.uk if you would like to be reactivated.

Please be aware that your user name and entered location can be seen by all members. We only store information you have entered which is your email address and username, your IP is also stored, we have no access to private passwords.

If you do not agree with your information being stored, please do not register an account, If you wish to unsubscribe at any time please email admin@dbtc.co.uk giving your username.

Amended 27/10/18

Moderators: Segrie61, admin

joeproctor
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: drax, nr, selby, north yorkshire
Contact:

police and the tractor driver

Post by joeproctor » Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:15 am

can any one tell me what the law states about roll bars on tractors?what colour diesel should be used on tractor road runs?can passengers be carried in transport boxes and trailer?

R.Poff
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:10 pm

RE: police and the tractor driver

Post by R.Poff » Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:15 pm

Good morning Joe,
Hope all is well across the pond. Can't tell you what the law states, here or there, but I can tell you what it should be.
Roll bars should be on the tractor unless the tractor did not or was not sold w/ it as original equipment.
Your tractor runs off road, dyed diesel. Even if you are on the road, you should be allowed to run this. You are using a farm, off road vehicle, to transport or move on the road. If you had to put clear, taxed stuff in for road runs, then it should stand to reason that you should be able to off road diesel in your truck when you use it in the fields.
Transport boxes, hmmmm.... I have seen plenty of people thrown out of these because they were attached to a 3pt. and shook out when the tractor lurched laterally. Having said this, we still carry the kids around occasionally in one for tractor rides. Kids like tractors as much as grown ups, I think. Trailers/wagons should be allowed to carry passengers. People do it in parades all the time.
Have a good day,
Rob

Eric_T
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:57 am
Location: North Wales

Post by Eric_T » Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:16 pm

I think that the current law states,

If the tractor is used fro Agri work, Red Diesel is fine, Road Runs are not considered Ag work, therfore, white is legally required.

Dont know about roll bars, dont think that they know theselves!

Eric

RitchieLeslie
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:17 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

The law and passengers

Post by RitchieLeslie » Wed Feb 08, 2006 2:45 pm

Hey Joe

Did you get my email about parts sources?

As to carrying passengers, I would be VERY VERY careful to get in touch with your insurance company before you do this. Regardless of what the law states, if some clown falls off your trailer and breaks a leg you could be in a lot of hot water. Unfortunate but it's a fact in modern life.

Certainly in Ontario it is illegal under the highway traffic act to carry any passengers on a farm implement of any kind behind a tractor, while travelling a public highway . The same applies to riding in the back of a pick up truck.

Eric_T
Posts: 1408
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 11:57 am
Location: North Wales

Post by Eric_T » Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:21 pm

You cant carry passengers unless there is a specified seat with seat belt.

I run a Land Rover 110, 11 seater, I am not allowed to carry anyone on the back benches as there is no seat belt fitted for them!

We also live in a world of blame and claim, i would suspect that its not worth the hassle, if something were to happen, even someone small and silly like twisting their ankle, its you who they would come after for all sorts of compensation!

joeproctor
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: drax, nr, selby, north yorkshire
Contact:

police and the tractor driver

Post by joeproctor » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:08 pm

i thought we might have had a bit more responce from this ,here is the correct answers,tractors on road runs need to be taxed as agricultural not historic (historic will have to use white diesel,sorry boys)and when on the road runs shows etc you must carry some sort of produce ie,bag of spuds ,carrots sprouts ,bale of straw etc.then red diesel is ok . roll bars are not compulsary on tractors manufactured after 1978,you must also be the owner (even if you have borrowed it) passengers can only be carried if a suitable seating is available and guarding, handrail ,mesh so that they cannot fall off ,yes we dont go fast but falling out of a trailer could break your neck and tighten the noose around the drivers neck.
these answers came from a ex -police officer who now speaks for and on behalf of the police at conferences aroundthe british isles!!!!!!!!!!!!
regards
joe

RDay
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:27 am
Location: Lincolnshire

RE: police and the tractor driver

Post by RDay » Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:33 am

Joe,
You are on the right lines regarding red diesel although the one about carrying agricultural produce is a new one to me.
This in itself raises some interesting questions, not least the one that if the road run goes beyond a 14-mile radius from its start-off point then if the tractors are carrying produce the owners should be running an operators licence.
I'm afraid it simply isn't good enough to speak to a policeman and take his word for it.
We have made enquiries with HM Customs & Excise and the way I understand is that if you are on a road run you should, strictly speaking, be on white diesel.
However, if you are carrying out an activity that does not involve going on the public highway, red is fine.
Customs & Excise have indicated that stopping and checking vintage and classic tractors is far from the top of their list of priorities - name me an instance where an old tractor on a recreational acitivity has been stopped and 'dipped'. I haven;t heard of one.
R Day

RayG
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:29 pm
Location: Northwich Cheshire

Post by RayG » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:19 pm

well said Rory as an ex copper I am fed up with people bending my
ear about white and red diesel. I was told yesterday that you
needed white diesel for road runs and red diesel for agricultural
purposes, quite right but how on earth are you going to change
from one to the other. If you use white diesel having had red diesel
in your tank the red diesel is still traceable. Lets not get our knickers
in a twist until someone is stopped and action is taken, then we will
all know.

joeproctor
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: drax, nr, selby, north yorkshire
Contact:

lawman

Post by joeproctor » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:09 pm

now we are getting somewhere ,but
here's the question .there is always alot of talk-discussions,arguments what ever you want to call it about what ever subject,now a man that knows the law and the loop holes within it has been asked these questions time and time again ,ray did you know the answers that i asked,it is highly unlikely that you did,this man knew all the answers and even before i asked the questions he had answered them,including the changing from red to white it is a tractor remember on a farming dutycarrying produce ask your chums down at the local nick see what they have to say.
i have been told of two concours tractors out on a road run using red diesel both tractor were impounded by the customs with nowt else to do!!!!!!!!

RayG
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:29 pm
Location: Northwich Cheshire

Post by RayG » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:36 pm

Lets have some details Joe this is news. I am more concerned about tractors running around with no insurance and some in poor condition
on one of our local runs the condition of a tractor was a disgrace. it is already being
talked about having MOTs for modern tractors. For the record I have given up using red diesel some of my mates have come to the conclusion
that it sludges up their fuel systems. It costs about £20 for a top up of white which lasts ages in a brown.

joeproctor
Posts: 1738
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:07 pm
Location: drax, nr, selby, north yorkshire
Contact:

law man

Post by joeproctor » Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:00 pm

hi ray,the man's name is mike braithwaite he writes articles in magazines such as farmers weekly you will know of him ,heis definatly switched on.
regards
joe

RDay
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2006 10:27 am
Location: Lincolnshire

RE: law man

Post by RDay » Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:23 pm

Joe,
We have recently carried out a very in-depth piece of research into the whole issue of hobby tractors. I am holding back from publishing the feature because to be quite honest apart from the two tractors you mention I have not heard of anyone else being pulled up for using red diesel. I;m told the two tractors to which you refer had issues with insurance, or rather the lack of it.
If Customs and Excise are so keen on preventing red diesel being used how come they dont go to the National Tractor Road Run and nick everyone there...? Work that one out: 500 tractors x 250 pound fines each.

Personally, I do not think it is an issue with them - they have bigger fish to fry and limited resources. I think we are in danger of talking it into an issue.
R Day

RayG
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:29 pm
Location: Northwich Cheshire

Post by RayG » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:11 pm

Thanks Joe did not mean to push you but it sounds from what Rory says
there are other issues. I worked for almost 30 years as a plod and at no time did I become involved in this type of thing. I knew that quite often custom and excise would visit the local markets and dip farmers vehicles I even heard of certain people having tanks with in tanks. I was a bit puzzled about the difference between a tractor being taxed as historic or agricultural. As there is no excise to be paid on either, again I think it is a none issue. A historic vehicle is a historic vehicle isn't it. I used to get my red diesel from our local boat yard they started taking registered numbers mainly because of travellers or gypsies using it on the road.

R.Poff
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 3:10 pm

Post by R.Poff » Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:06 pm

All,
I have followed this posting with much interest. Certainly you guys must have a website across the pond that will give you this information, or a phone number you can call. I did not know that this is that big of an issue. If you are doing farm work with a tractor, you should be able to run the diesel you work in the fields with. Say you have a farm, with about 1 to 2 mile/km between the two plots of land you work. This road between the two is paved, and even crosses a two lane divided highway. You run your tractor from the main location of about 120 head to your second location of 50 head. You run the tractor only between the two locations, with no crop or produce or hay or whatever on with you because your second barn is at the second location. Is someone trying to indicate that you would have to run clear just because you commute between the two. Even if the excise people did stop and dip (obviously these people are having no better criminals to chase than the small farmer) I would think you could appear in court, explain to the judge the situation, and it would be dismissed. I would venture to say that if you explained this to the agent doing the dipping, they would not continue.
My 2 cents
Ya'll have a great day.

RayG
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:29 pm
Location: Northwich Cheshire

Post by RayG » Wed Feb 15, 2006 6:14 pm

I don't think there would be a problem as outlined by your goodself. In the Uk there is a thriving community of tractor enthusiasts who are not farmers. They just get a tractor to do organised road runs, attend vintage shows and rallys or plough at organised matches. If you are a farmer I cannot really see a problem if the tractor is used occasionally for the purpose it was built. and is run on red diesel on the road. It is people like myself who own 1 or more tractors and never farm.
I own 4 David Browns they never see a muddy puddle if I can help it.
I presume the restrictions for red diesel also apply to TVO I have never heard it mentioned.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 12 guests