Cromaster Diesel EP140 Gear Oil

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Robert10100
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Cromaster Diesel EP140 Gear Oil

Post by Robert10100 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:08 pm

Hi,

Is it ok to put EP140 oil in the gearbox of my 1952 Cropmaster Diesel to quieten it down? Some of the serial plates I have on other early DBs recommend 140 for tGe spur reductions only, but the new serial plate on the Cropmaster states that 140 is ok for the entire transmission.

Has anybody any experience of thus thicker oil quietening the gearbox noise? Dies it make much difference? Thanks.

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tedwood
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Location: australia victoria ballarat

RE: Cromaster Diesel EP140 Gear Oil

Post by tedwood » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:22 pm

Win the lottery? ide be worryed about hydrulics, as the pump would not like cold 140.and if your box is audibull over a diesel its probaly due for a new sett of berings! before you ruin the hard to get gearsett.If onthe other hand it is a dieing gearsett try 90ep and mollydomen/nulon aditives to forgo the on set of failure.

Robert10100
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RE: Cromaster Diesel EP140 Gear Oil

Post by Robert10100 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:39 pm

The gearbox is grand - just the straight cut gear noise I want to lower!

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tedwood
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RE: Cromaster Diesel EP140 Gear Oil

Post by tedwood » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:18 pm

If your oil level is right the higher rated oil will lower the pitch, but not nessaceraly the volume of the noise.The higher rating is a mesure of oils resistance to movement not thickness. so it will stay under higher load but there wont nessersarly be more oil in a particulal spot.PS it will also absorb more power, something we cropy owners have to be awere of becase tho there big horses there arnt many of them and there getting older every day!

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bigdavesproule
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RE: Cromaster Diesel EP140 Gear Oil

Post by bigdavesproule » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:34 pm

our zetor 10540 is meant to run on ep90 for the backend, i always thought it strange for hydraulics to be run on gear oil ;)
dave

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RE: Cromaster Diesel EP140 Gear Oil

Post by Guest » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:46 pm

Cheap option would be to invest a few pence in a pair of ear plugs! :wink:

broadsword
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Post by broadsword » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:00 pm

Tip from the motor trade - the stuff below never fails :roll:

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odin
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Post by odin » Wed Aug 03, 2011 5:04 am

EP 140 was designed for the old "worm drive" double drive axles on commercial vehicles from times long ago, Fodens, AEC, Sentinals etc. It is a very heavy sticky substance and will not do your machine any favours. Stick to what it says on the tin. There are a lot of precious metals in the transmission of a Brown, thats what you are paying for when you acquire one, un-like cheaper mass produced variants that were on the market at the same time. A Cropmaster was always worth a fortune in scrap, thats one reason not as many survived. Other makes were just left in the corner as there was little scrap value in them.
If you put the wrong oil in, it will grind itself apart and there will be more value in the drained oil. :shock:

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:17 am

Following on from Odin in saying 'stick to what it says on the tin', what it says in the tractors operators handbook should be observed, this is why they were printed. I know that handbooks are quite hard to come by and can be expensive when they do turn up but I would advise anyone that does not have the handbook relating to their tractor to buy one when they see one on the market, it would be a good investment and will answer all your operation, service and lubrication queries. If you're spending a large amount of money restoring your tractor, a little more on a handbook could save you another fortune.

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colinb
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Post by colinb » Wed Aug 03, 2011 3:16 pm

Be careful....don't use Hypoid gear oil in anything with bronze bushes or selector forks.....early Hypoid additives would eat away the 'yellow metal'.
I once saw a Bugatti gearbox that had needle rollers everywhere...the bronze cages that were supposed to house the needles had all but disappeared due to Hypoid oil.
I would go with the advice above...take the lid off...if the gear teeth all look good (no significant wear or metal flow) then rebuild the box with new bearings...at least you'll know it's all good then.
I'm at the same point with a low hours 880A gearbox. It stood with lots of water in the gearbox for several years...gears all look good but there is play in some bearings so it's coming out for a rebuild before snow blowing season.

Robert10100
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Post by Robert10100 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 4:20 pm

You've got me worried now with all this talk of oil eating away at the gearbox component!
Surely EP oil doesn't contain any harmful chemicals as this is the oil recommended by the manufacturer! Thanks for the replies all the same!

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tedwood
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Post by tedwood » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:06 pm

Point 1 the advice of the maker out of date,different time different oils{there tire size recomendations are not valid either} point 2 bugatti cages are a bad example, they they had a timed destruct that inspired mission impossable![i think he swiped the bronse from his brothers art supplys?}

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:20 pm

Lubricants for older vehicles, as specified or recommended in the original operators/owners handbooks are still available with a little research and asking the suppliers as companies still manufacture these or their equivalents specific for the purpose as the vintage fraternity is huge and recognised by these companies. Ask the owner of a 1952 Aston Martin what oil he uses in the engine and he will probably tell you that he uses exactly what's recommended and would not compromise the health of the engine with anything else, so why should older tractors be treated any different? If it says use 15W30 in the book, then use it.

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:55 pm

I think that with modern oils you have to remember that there is a greater detergent content in them which 'washes' the carbon deposits from the internals giving the oil less of an effective life and as such it should be changed, together with the filter, at more regular intervals. David Brown recommended that the engine oil and filter should be changed at 250 hour intervals (and number 1 fuel filter the same). In some instances a detergent oil could be benificial in that the inside of the engine will not 'sludge' up as quickly providing the oil is changed at a more regular interval. how many of us have found 2 inches of sludge in the sump and can srcape a 1/4 inch off the inside of the block/crankcase, normally due to the lack of maintenance by previous owners, that's why I always say to someone who has just taken posession of a tractor, give the engine a good service and then work it a bit to acertain its health before stripping it down if it's not needed.

John_Allen
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Post by John_Allen » Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:21 pm

I wonder what PR means when he says modern oils - I remember a J4 van I drove in 1970 that had had it's engine ruined when someone used "tractor oil" in the petrol engine - the detergents cleaned too well!

While agreeing that searching for "old" oils to suit the tractor is a good idea, you have to remember that multigrade oils are a relatively recent invention - I remember my father using Castol XL and XXL in the early sixties, changing to the "Winter Grade" or "Summer Grade" as required. I always used 20/50 in the Fergy and had no bad side effects.

There was an article in "Practical Classics" two or three years ago about oils whcih said that even an "original" oil will be made to modern standards, with modern additives rather than older. less effective, ones. It stressed, as others have already said, that EP oils should not go near phosphor-bronze bearings; however, there will be heavier non-EP oils that should be safe. I still wouldn't try it though - the grade is recommended for a reason!

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