Concours Condition

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Amended 27/10/18

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aphughes
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Concours Condition

Post by aphughes » Thu May 26, 2011 2:11 pm

Can anyone tell me what would make a restoration suitable to be called concours condition?

Im trying to restore my 990 Implematic to as good a condition as possible. Any advice on achieving this would be greatly appreciated.

Guest

RE: Concours Condition

Post by Guest » Thu May 26, 2011 2:35 pm

Polished to death so that you can see yourself in the paint, no oil leaks, not a speck of dust, the list goes on. Basically Alan, something that looks like it's just come off the assembly line at the Rolls Royce factory intended for the Royal Palace. Concourse is a term that most tractor enthusiasts would shy away from and in my own opinion a word that should never apply to tractors as they never left the factory with the same type of finish as a 'high end' car although where the paintwork was concerned, had to be to a certain standard. Also this word in restoration terms, if I were a judge, would be used very very sparingly as most tractors you see on the show circuit that would come up to this standard in some eyes are fitted with replacement parts that are totally wrong, not of date period, ill fitting and not as original. I think this may answer your question. :wink:

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aphughes
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RE: Concours Condition

Post by aphughes » Thu May 26, 2011 2:40 pm

So basically, a proper paint job, (possibly better then the origional would have been) no leaks and the correct parts for the model in question?

From your responce I imagine no self respecting tractor enthusiast would try to achieve this but would probablly achieve it because there dedicated.

Thats nice to know!

JimCochrane
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RE: Concours Condition

Post by JimCochrane » Thu May 26, 2011 7:04 pm

David Brown Tractors when they came out the factory had most parts coated in paint ,no shiny or black painted startors or dynamos. generally all brass parts except serial plates were painted.Almost all tractors had runs in the chassis painting,even bonnets and wings could have runs. There was no top coat paint under the fuel tank tank or dash or in all the nooks and crannies and radiator hoses were always painted.Few items had a plated finish being mostly painted instead. A concours tractor is never as the tractor left factory.But its entirly up to the individual how they restore thier tractor after all its a hobby .

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jimc1390
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RE: Concours Condition

Post by jimc1390 » Thu May 26, 2011 7:33 pm

paint on fan belts the lot!!! they had a proper soak!!!
db 990 selectamatic
case ih 1594 com ed
db 1390 gd90 loader

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aphughes
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Post by aphughes » Thu May 26, 2011 10:47 pm

Ya I have heard that the paint jobs werent always the best quality. My former father in law is a trained DB mechanic and he remembers the tractors going out of the dealership with rust on them.

Ok another question. Is it completly unheard of for a tractor enthuasist to use fiber glass body panels instead of the traditional tin work versions?

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jimc1390
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Post by jimc1390 » Fri May 27, 2011 6:33 am

its your tractor , dont feel preasurised to do this or do that, as long as your happy with it, thats the main thing
db 990 selectamatic
case ih 1594 com ed
db 1390 gd90 loader

nevilleporter
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Post by nevilleporter » Fri May 27, 2011 7:20 am

Alan ,as long as the tractor is running well, no oil leaks(almost impossible to achieve) good paint job,and the correct colours and decals the right way round,(not the ones with DAVID BROWNE on them!) I use 2 pack on the better tractors, some people think it is not needed but it doesnt fade as quick as single pack. Rad hoses, filters and fanbelts were painted in the factory but they look better put on afterwards.
Everyone has a different view but as long as you are happy with it, you cant please everyone.

Robert10100
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Post by Robert10100 » Fri May 27, 2011 11:07 am

I have a couple of tractors in concours condition, and in my opionion, a concours tractor should meet the following criteria:

(i) An excellent paint finish, and for that, the tractor must be cleaned down and prepared properly, with every spec of rust and dirt removed. The paint used should be two-pack acryllic at the very least, and the aim of the game is to restore a tractor to the standard of David Brown show tractors as opposed to those that rolled off the production line;

(ii) Everything new that can be bought for the tractor should be bought for it;

(iii) A full mechanical as well as a cosmetic rebuild. Everything in the engine should be like new - pistons, liners, rings, crankshaft, bearings, valves, valve springs, oil pump, water pump, the lot. Gearbox and front and rear wheel bearings must be checked also;

(iv) Finishing touches are absolutely vital - all new bolts and screws used, or if not, the originals polished and lacquered. Chrome dome headed screws used for panel fixing, new wool tape and rivets used where panels touch off each other, all brass and copper fuel lines polished and lacquered, the injector pump polished and lacquered etc;

(v) No oil leaks. None. At all. No bits of oil or sludge 'where nobody will look.' no weeping water pumps, no play in the steering, no play in anything!;

Across England and Ireland, I have seen very few concours tractors. The biggest area in which they fall down is in preparation before spraying. People simply do not clean down tractors properly, throw a big coat of high-build primer over the lot, a load of two pack paint, and it looks great for only a year. Then the rust starts coming through, first as microblisters, and then the paint starts lifting in lumps.

The cost in restoring a tractor to this standard is considerable, particularly tractors that require a lot of finishing touches like Cropmasters. I'm after putting £4,000 of parts alone into my Ferguson TEF20!

The next challenge is keeping a tractor in this condition. So, the tractor must be cleaned and polished reqularly enough, tyres kept clean, stored in a dry garage etc.

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jimc1390
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Post by jimc1390 » Fri May 27, 2011 6:53 pm

each to there own , but i seen a tef with polised fuel lines and it looked a bit much for me, i admire your patience and dedication to your projects robert but its too much for me, sit her there on axle stands and spray everything is my style !! any pics of your machines robert?
db 990 selectamatic
case ih 1594 com ed
db 1390 gd90 loader

broadsword
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Post by broadsword » Fri May 27, 2011 10:41 pm

Alan,
interesting different views on this topic. The only problem with a concours tractor is they have to be restored to allmost `as new` condition - and as Robert has said most are restored to the `show condition` condition. This means the condition that DB would have done when they had the tractors at the Royal Show, Harrogate show condition rather than the factory condition as delivered to the farm.

I was at the malvern show this year and there was a stunning Super Major on display, two pack paint , a real eyefull - I got talking to the owner and he had really gone to town. After the judging, he was judged down on the fact there was wear in the rear link arms and ball joints, otherwise the tractor was great - ie just normal wear on an old tractor, needless to say he owner was gutted but could see the point of view of the judges.

As has been pointed out some owners want to win a concours competition and has been pointed out it what floats your boat - as an owner of a shiny two pack 990 (the frame chassis is done in cellulose though and you can still see the casting marks etc) I prefer to use mine and the first chance I get to use it on rolling/drazing/hay turning etc and jump at the chance to use it for what it was intended for.

Again it what floats your boat - once you have gone down the concours route though - would you dare to use the thing for what it was intended??

Good luck with whatever you do by the way

Cheers

Andy

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aphughes
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Post by aphughes » Fri May 27, 2011 10:56 pm

Hi Andy and Robert,

Can we get some pictures of your concours tractors. Would love to see the condition these are in. Im planning on getting the tractor professionaly sprayed as I have a gaping hole in the bonnet and the nose cones needs to be replaced completly and I dont have the skillset to do that. So Id imagine the spray job they do would be enduring.

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dafydd990
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Post by dafydd990 » Fri May 27, 2011 11:37 pm

If you want "factory fresh" Forget the primer, just Slap on the top coat really thick until its dripping nicely,No need to mask anything.Fanbelt,pipes,taps were all red, can even paint the filters and glass bowl. Then pour some paint into all the hollows until its 1/4 inch deep & drop a couple of nuts & washers in there for added realism. Cos thats how mine arrived!!! I only wish they had done the same with the tinwork and yes ours (1490 & 990) had rust specks on the bonnets when new. Mind you got a New JD last month and thats no better, Amazing how they can paint stuff so thinly these days, Its starting to rust around the wheel nuts and a few other bits allready. DB at least had a good thickness going. Couldnt scratch it with an axe.

Guest

Post by Guest » Sat May 28, 2011 8:34 am

The reason that the panels such as the bonnet and wings on D.B's lasted so long is because of of the quality of the steel that was used, it was new steel, not 'recycled' and was a fairly heavy guage and the ones that lasted the longest were all the models up to the mid 1970's, after that, due to the steel strikes and concequent closure of the British steel industry, things started going down hill fast. The length of time thatthe panels lasted was really up to the owners, how they looked after it. The paint then was applied a little thicker and the finish was better but this 'quality' declined when the name of Case started appearing on the decals in 1972.

Robert10100
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Post by Robert10100 » Sat May 28, 2011 11:10 am

Here are a few pics - I restored the 25D, 950 and TEF20 and bought the Cropmaster Diesel as it is and improved it...

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