1390 - Difficulty in Engaging Gear

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Alchad
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:18 pm
Location: Shropshire

1390 - Difficulty in Engaging Gear

Post by Alchad » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:03 pm

Hi all,

Hardly used the tractor since last autumn, been using it once or twice a week for the last month or so and have been having increasing difficulty getting into gear. The one exception is 2nd gear which can be engaged relatively easily; to get into first or reverse I have to first engage 2nd and then first or reverse - and even then the gears "graunch" when engaging. It's also very hard to disengage - requires force on the gear lever.

Other pieces of information

1) The clutch is quite new - it was replaced at an engine rebuild and has probably only done a 100 hours.

2) There is oil dripping from the bottom clutch inspection cover.

3) Clutch hydraulic operation seems OK

4) I had an identical problem a year or so ago which turned out to be one of the clutch alignment bolts working loose (cannot believe this could have happened again - the bolt was replaced and we triple checked the locknuts were tightened very securely)

Any suggestions very much appreciated.

Alchad

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jimc1390
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RE: 1390 - Difficulty in Engaging Gear

Post by jimc1390 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:14 pm

just lack of adjustment im guessing,or is there any fluid dripping down the clutch pedal? leaking master cylinder may show the slave pushing but the master wont be giving enough effort to work the clutch fully?
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RE: 1390 - Difficulty in Engaging Gear

Post by Guest » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:34 pm

Look at the mechanism on the bottom of the gear lever under the cab as the hollow ball that sits in the arm that the gear lever goes through may be worn and slack. Second thing to look at if not the former is to remove the gear lever from inside the cab and then remove the 'tower' that the lever 'L' bracket, which is attached to the shaft which is in turn connected to the selection lever and look at the steel pin that holds the selection lever on the shaft, if loose or worn enough to give movement between the lever and shaft this will cause the problem. If none of the above then suspect worn selectors on 1st and reverse shaft.

jazo
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RE: 1390 - Difficulty in Engaging Gear

Post by jazo » Sat Mar 26, 2011 11:05 pm

sounds more like clutch dragging rather then selectors, check as jim says and if ok i would remove cover and check those alignment bolts again and if its not that suspect clutch plate linings parting from plate?? it goes into second gear easier as second and third have synchros and first and reverse dont
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bmcgahan
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RE: 1390 - Difficulty in Engaging Gear

Post by bmcgahan » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:57 pm

sounds like oil has contaminated the clutch drive plate and the plate is sticking to the pressure plates. or it could be clutch out of adjustment under the the cab, adjust the rod on slave cylinder

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Post by Scooby » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:07 pm

Hello folks. I am posting this on behalf of Alchad, his B/Band has gone down. Firstly he thanks everyone for all their input on this topic, he says it has been very helpful.

But he has asked me to ask a question about something he has done today that has remedied the situation. He has taken the free-play out of the rod in the slave cylinder by adjusting it. He can now engage all the gears in the box perfectly. He wants to know if he might have made a mistake by doing this.

I told him that I think that's where the free play in the clutch is in a hydraulic clutch system but it would be good to get confirmation from some of you helpful guys on here.

Thanks from both of us.
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Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

bmcgahan
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Post by bmcgahan » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:13 pm

He should remove the return spring on the lever coming out of clutch housing and adjust the rod til there is only a mil or two play back and forth. Tighten up lock nut and refit spring and bobs your teapot. The only mistake he made was failing to check adjustment after the clutch was replaced. I found the clutch on these need to be adjusted over the years as the pedal gets too high and clutch starts to slip, then when clutch is replaced it needs the adjustment reversed. These tractors have to be adjusted manually, only 94 series have auto adjusting clutches which is done by the slave cylinder.

Alchad
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Post by Alchad » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:47 pm

Hi,

Thanks David - just hiked 1/2 mile up a hill to get a signal on my IPhone to check any replies!

The point is that if I adjust so there is free play the clutch doesn't work as it should - it's only if I take out the free play and " Pre-load " the clutch that it works. It's as though I need another 1/4 inch travel on the slave cylinder. Could it be that the slave cylinder is worn?

Is there any other adjustment on the clutch?

Thanks again, won't be able to check replies until tomorrow.

broadsword
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Post by broadsword » Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:38 pm

Alchad,

I take it the clutch is hydraulic on these tractors?? - is there a cylinder within the clutch itself apart from the master cylinder - you mentioned there is fluid leaking from the inspection cover??.

As someone with limited `hands on` application to tractors, this sounds like a simular car problem - particulary on VW hydraulic clutch systems - if there is a leak on the slave or secondary cylinders (seals) fluid is lost or air enters the system, the symptoms is you cannot get them into gear or worst still once in gear you drop the clutch and it stays i gear - is it possible to bleed or force any air out of the system - if you then use it a while and the same symtoms occur then it appears the seals/cylinders are worn????.

Good Luck

Andy

Alchad
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Post by Alchad » Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:39 pm

Andy,

Thanks - It's a master cylinder and a slave operating the actuating lever. I think your diagnosis is probably correct though, there's not enough "oomph" to move the actuating lever that last 1/8" inch. I think I'll strip them down and overhaul or just replace.

Regards

Alchad

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jimc1390
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Post by jimc1390 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:55 pm

did you change the clutch before this happened? i had a 1390 do this when the retaining clips were not removed, by the time i had got there they had welded a length on the end of the slave
db 990 selectamatic
case ih 1594 com ed
db 1390 gd90 loader

Alchad
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:18 pm
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Post by Alchad » Tue Mar 29, 2011 9:26 am

Alchad wrote:Andy,

Thanks - It's a master cylinder and a slave operating the actuating lever. I think your diagnosis is probably correct though, there's not enough "oomph" to move the actuating lever that last 1/8" inch. I think I'll strip them down and overhaul or just replace.

Regards

Alchad
Jim,

It is a fairly new clutch, but it was working OK until a few months back.

Regards

Alchad

Alchad
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Location: Shropshire

Post by Alchad » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:08 pm

Update....

I disconnected the actuating rod from slave cylinder to the clutch and measured the maximum length of stroke with no load which was about 7/8 inch. (With the clutch disconnected the foot pedal could be had operated to actuate the master/slave cylinder; the slave cylinder actuating rod could similarly be pushed completely back afterwards, so I'm certain this 7/8 inch is the maximum amount of travel possible).

I then reconnected everything and adjusted the actuating rod until it was touching the lever and tried to engage gear - impossible. I also pushed the clutch foot pedal right to the floor and wedged it with a piece of wood and checked the lever movement - 7/8 inch, so I don't think the clutch master or slace cylinder are leaking.

I then removed the piece of wood and preloaded the clutch by lengthening the adjusting rod about 1/8 inch. Then when I tried to engage gear there was no graunching and all gears could be engaged easily!

I know this is contrary to how the adjustment is supposed to be done - but it works! However I'm still a little concerned that I could be doing some damage.

Anybody any views?

Thanks

Alchad

bonserdb
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Post by bonserdb » Thu Mar 31, 2011 4:35 pm

alchad. if you are concerned about anything. i would just check that the thrust bearing isnt constantly touching the finger pad on the pressure plate, you dont want the thrust bearing constantly spinning when the engine is running. if it isnt touching then i cant think what there is to worry about.

matt
proud owner of a beloved bonser90d, 880 selectamatic and 1490 2wd synchro, and the mighty 1594!

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