Oil changes/Has anything changed?

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Rubytoads
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:49 pm
Location: Eastern Ontario

Oil changes/Has anything changed?

Post by Rubytoads » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:05 pm

I have several modern MF's and the recommended oil change is after 300 hours. The manuals for my DB's all recommend 125. But that was nearly 40 years ago. My question is for the mechanical pro's: with the modern-era oils, would they suggest a new, safe interval?

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denbute
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Location: Breendonk. Belgium.

RE: Oil changes/Has anything changed?

Post by denbute » Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:54 pm

Read your manual and follow it's recommendations or ask your dealer what they do. As long as you use the recommended oil and filters at the recommended intervals, you won't have trouble. The engineers at MF (or other brands) design an engine with a lifespan of about 10000h without any serious problems with these maintencance intervals, sh!t still can happen though. The engine is designed to cope with the longer maintencance interval, thus reducing maintencance costs (that's actually a sales argument to sell new tractors, trucks and other large equipment).
Your new tractor probably uses 10W40 syntethic motor oil instead of the 20W40 mineral the DB uses, also look at the filters they use, they might be filtering at lower micro rating. Oils tend to keep their lubricating properties for longer and tend to stay cleaner in the newer engines.

As an example my grandfather had a truck in the 70's, it had to have an oil change everey 5000km or about every 2 to 3 weeks. Later my dad had his first truck in the 80's, changed the oil every 10000km, 20000km in the 90's. The last 3 trucks he had only need an oil change every 50000km or up to 3 times a year. The oils went from 20W30 over 15W40 to 10W40 syntethic.

anyway, don't worry about longer intevals, do as the book(or dealer) says.

Jonathan
<b>1964 David Brown 880 Implematic sn: 880C357040 4 cylinder
197? David Brown 1210 sn: 1210/1/728679
1978 David Brown 996 sn: 995/6/11083514

broadsword
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Location: Holmfirth, Huddersfield

Post by broadsword » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:29 pm

Oh dear the subject of oil changes and regularity - this could get entertaining!!!.

Agree with Jonathan but also disagree with him on this one!!!

The older tackle were designed for 15/30 or 20/40 Mineral but on frequent changes, put modern synthetic/semi-synthetic in them and chances are they will not like it and probably use/burn oil.

Modern oils have come on so much but I cannot get my head around the long intervals. Tractors and trucks tend to run at low revs but as a car trader I cannot help thinking these long life intervals are not what they are cracked up to be - particulary on modern turbo diesels engines that tend to run a lot hotter. I have heard of oil crystalisation on the turbo feed pipes and the same on pick up pipes in the sump - the number of fords/pug-citroens/renaults and even VW`s going through turbos on modern cars is getting alarming and very costly.

My advice is stick to manufacturers guides but if they suggest say 300 hours and I was an owner user I`d do it at 200/250 and play safe.

Anyone of you out there with these 18/20/25k long life intervals on modern cars - take my advice put in synthetic and change it every 10k.

I know modern oils are getting exspenvive but to use the old adage `OILS CHEAPER THAN METAL !!!!`

Cheers

Andy.

John_Allen
Posts: 1894
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:59 pm
Location: Cumbria UK

Post by John_Allen » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:42 pm

Good answer Broadsword!

I changed the old Passat (1.9TD) to semi-synthetic on some "expert's" advice and it caused no end of problems. I changed it back within a month to ordinary mineral oil and it eventually came right - I was very lucky! The "new" Golf (with a PD engine for the VW lovers) is very particular about what oil is used - only VW or Comma did suitable oils until recently! It's a 10K change interval, but I still prefer 5-6K (though I suspect will do less than that this year, so it'll be an annual this time!!)

There was a thread on the VWAudi forum recently about a bloke worried about a new Passat's turbo and, as Broadsword says, it appears to be more common of late (though I suggested that he should buy a car without turbo or cambelt - or tyres - they puncture and can cause damage!)

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denbute
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Post by denbute » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:38 pm

I never said : put synthetic in your older engines ! It will definatly leak or burn oil. On the other, hand don't do the opposite either!
Engines are designed to use a certain type of oil, so recommended oils are to be used or sh!t happens.
Not sure about doing shorter intervals than the book being much safer. My father always pushed to the limit and beyond when it comes to oil change intervals. None of these trucks had engine trouble, but it's a truck, it runs all day at working temp, just like tractors.

The recommended intervals are to keep both the company and the dealer out of the premature engine failure trouble . So going lower won't get you that much profit. When you're doing a lot of short trips with your car or truck then it's recommended to change the oil at shorter intervals. With mineral oils it was recommended to change once a year, even if you didn't manage to get enough km's. Had something to do with the shelf life of mineral oil. Not sure about the syntethic oils on this one.

You're talking about turbo's seizing due to crystalizing oil, but what was their driving style, what miles did the cars have, what type of traffic were they in, was the correct oil used etc.
Oh and the obvious one : you're a car trader, you only get to see the bad ones, that people want to get rid of :twisted:

But seriously with these types of failures the dealer has to complain to the manufacturer. If no complaints get back to them, they won't get someone to look into it and will be reluctant to accept warranty claims. As an (almost) industrial engineer in automotive engineering, this type of failures sure does get my attention, when it even gets common in VW's, it's worth looking into it.

Jonathan
<b>1964 David Brown 880 Implematic sn: 880C357040 4 cylinder
197? David Brown 1210 sn: 1210/1/728679
1978 David Brown 996 sn: 995/6/11083514

broadsword
Posts: 1707
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:17 pm
Location: Holmfirth, Huddersfield

Post by broadsword » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:44 am

Hi Jonathan,

when did I suggest in my post that you suggested putting synthetic oil in older engines??. Try re-reading my post and you will see I agree with you that to stick to manufactures oil recomendations for oil type. You would be amazed at the number of people out there that think its better to put modern synthetic oil in older engines.

ALSO as a car trader/retail garage who SPECIALISES in ex fleet/PLC/Lease cars that have done 60 to 100k in 3 years, thats motorway miles with main agent servicing on long life intervals with correct grade oils, how come Peug/Cit/Ford 1.6 HDI`s have well known turbo failure issues, one in every two Astra 1.3CDTI that has done 80k or more will have had a new turbo fitted (I`ve sold about 30 in the last 6 months so I do have some knowledge of this), Renault 1.9 DCI`s have a well known turbo bearing/suck oil/rev themselves to death issues and even VW`s are having issues.

This to me means one of three things.

1) Modern turbos are crap

2) Modern drivers do not understand that you need to let turbos idle a while before switching off their engines.

3) Long life service intervals need to be shortened.

As I said is `OIL IS CHEAPER THAN METAL`, and all I suggested was play it safe and change your oil on a more regular basis - I agree with your point of sticking to manufactures oil types/recomendations.

By all means stick to manufacturers recomendations, its you money. personally I would rather oil service intervals were shortened and I can spend a lot less of my hard to come by profit on turbo repairs and associated problems.

Cheers

Andy.

jazo
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Joined: Fri Jun 15, 2007 7:13 am
Location: New Zealand

Post by jazo » Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:31 am

Andy i would say its probably more of "number 2", have you heard anyone let a turbo vehicle cool down?? i say it would be interesting to have a hour meter in a car to compare kms to hours, i heard 300hrs was about 18000kms, depending on what sort of driving is done though. i used to work for a caseih,fergy,fendt dealer and most of the smaller tractors were 250hr intervals, then the new case (new hollands) came out at 600hr intervals and that would take some farmers 4 or more years to clock up!!
1694 4wd
1394 4wd
1294 4wd
30D
990x2
880
780x2
900

Alex573
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:42 am
Location: Doncaster

Post by Alex573 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 12:44 pm

I dont know all that much about oils etc but I work in a well known supermarket in my holls from uni to get alil money and i saw a bit ago a 20/30 oil that fell in to the 'smart price' bracket i think it was £5 or £6 for 4liters. As i said i dont know all that much about these things but im not sure what you would use that for or even if people would let smart price near their engines...

John_Allen
Posts: 1894
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:59 pm
Location: Cumbria UK

Post by John_Allen » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:40 pm

Indeed they would - someone on the VW forum posted that his wife had been told the engine was low on oil and put a litre of cheap 20/50 in. The car was running on longlife fully synthetic. I don't think the bloke was at all pleased!

Personally, if I only had the Fergy, I would use that type of oil in the gearbox. As I have the DB's too, I use decent oil in all three gearboxes (and rarely use the trailer with a DB). The Fergy's P-P engine gets 20/50 (not the cheap ones either!)

Alchad
Posts: 716
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:18 pm
Location: Shropshire

Post by Alchad » Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:57 pm

Alex573 wrote:...I work in a well known supermarket in my holls from uni to get alil money ...
Alex, I do hope at your young age that's a typo for "a little" and not a typo for "alimoney"

:wink:

Alchad

Alex573
Posts: 194
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:42 am
Location: Doncaster

Post by Alex573 » Sat Jul 10, 2010 7:18 pm

haha yes Alchad it was for a little. I try to leave the text speak for my phone but some gets through... :wink:

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