David Brown 950 clutch problem

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oreillw
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Location: Ireland

David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by oreillw » Tue Nov 10, 2020 8:28 am

Hi - I am new to this forum. I have a DB 950( 3 actually) - this one has a dual clutch. it has been idle for the last 25 to 30 years and not started. I have it taken out and am trying to start it. Engine is turning fine. There is no back pot on the tractor. It was removed at some stage in the past and sold. The carrier shaft has slipped off the clutch disc and is sticking out the back. Is there any way of getting the shaft back into the clutch disc without splitting the tractor? Also I tryed towing the tractor to start it but when I let up the clutch with the H3 engaged it won't turn the engine so the clutch disc for the gearbox must be slipping around in the clutch pressure plate and not engaging. any help appreciated.Thanks for viewing. Willie

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db2d
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by db2d » Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:26 am

When you say the back pot has been removed from the tractor do you mean the power take off unit ( pto ). The pto drive shaft can be re-engaged usually without splitting the tractor. This is not the reason for the engine not turning when being towed. Towing the tractor without the pto unit is not a very good idea.

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ollek
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by ollek » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:01 pm

Do not tow the tractor wiith the PTO unit removed, the transmission and hydraulics are dry (no oil) and with no lubrication. The reason for the engine not turning hen towing must be a damaged clutch. Split the tractor to find out what has happened with the clutch and possible with the transmission drive shaft. The shaft that is sticking out is the drive shaft for the PTO and this shaft has nothing to do with the transmission drive.

oreillw
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by oreillw » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:21 pm

Yes the PTO unit is removed. Looks like I will have to source a PTO unit for a duel clutch tractor. Surely I would be able to tow the tractor to help start it with the PTO unit gone - it will have no oil for a minute or so? Can the clutch be removed without splitting the tractor? Rgs Willie

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ollek
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by ollek » Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:57 pm

There is no oil in the transmission when the PTO unit is removed! This means that the transmission and hydraulics are without any lubrication all the time! And why would you try to tow start, you just said that the engine will not turn when you tow. You can tow the tractor in a very low speed in order to get in into an other position, but the distanse allowed is just 10 to 20 meter. You can get into the clutch without splitting the tractor, but it is much easyer and faster to do the split job. Not splitting requires removing at least the clutch cover, gear box cover, steering and fuel tank. A dual clutch has separate hand lever for the PTO clutch and the foot pedal operates only the transmission clutch. This clutch type is fitted to 996, 1200 and 1210 (1212) Selectamatic models only. Your tractor has a double clutch and the tractor is called "livedrive".
Last edited by ollek on Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oreillw
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by oreillw » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:44 pm

ok thanks ollek- it looks like I will need to remove the clutch anyway - the clutch disc for the transmission must be broken. Do you know which model of the David Brown 950 had the duel clutch -was it the Implematic or Pre Implematic or was it just specific models?

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ollek
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by ollek » Tue Nov 10, 2020 3:59 pm

No Implematic models, or any red bonnet tractors, had the dual clutch. A dual clutch can be found ONLY in Selectamatic (white tractors) 996, 1200, 1210 and 1212 and some 90- and 94-series tractors.The dual clutch tractors have a hand lever for the PTO clutch, please see my previous post. A 950, and many other Implematic and Selectamatic models, can have a single, plate clutch or a double clutch and if there is a double clutch, then the tractor is called Livedrive. Please differ betwen "double" an "dual", they are not the same. Your tractor is a Livedrive model (double clutch). If the tractor has a double clutch, then pressing the clutch pedal will first disengage the transmissiomn drive only and when the pedal is pushed further down, also the PTO will disaengage. Pressing the clutch pedal in a single plate clutch will stop the driving and the PTO at the same time.

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cobbadog
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by cobbadog » Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:37 am

Once you get the clutch sorted then you will need to work out why the engine is not turning over and you will still require a PTO unit to run and drive the tractor. Start looking on the auction sites and tractor wreckers for the PTO unit. While waiting for that to be delivered you can split the tractor and find out about the engine.

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ollek
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by ollek » Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:36 am

Cobbadog, you have misunderstood. The reason for the engine not turnining over is not the engine itself in this case. The OP wrote "I tryed towing the tractor to start it but when I let up the clutch with the H3 engaged it won't turn the engine so the clutch disc for the gearbox must be slipping around in the clutch pressure plate and not engaging". This tells me that there is something wrong with the clutc, as tow starting does not work. And yes, the tractor has to be split, as there is a problem with the clutch.

oreillw
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by oreillw » Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:47 am

The engine is turning fine - I just can't get it to turn fast enough to start so I was going to toe start it . Thats when I discovered it won't turn the engine when towing so the clutch disc spline must be broken. So I need to open the clutch and remove /repair it. Also need to find/source a back PTO pot for a double clutch Livedrive model somewhere.

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cobbadog
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by cobbadog » Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:01 am

OK, sounds like you need to explore why it isn't turning over fast enough to start or if you have enough compression or fuel getting in. Start by charging your battery fully. Check you havea good earth and all electric connections are firm and free of corrosion. Do you have good compression and is fuel getting in?

skyrydr2
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by skyrydr2 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:17 am

If it cranks ok and your seeing good amount of smoke coming from exaust, while cranking hit it with starter fluid (ether) it will start!

oreillw
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by oreillw » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:42 pm

Its Cranking fine - I am using a Power pack to turn the starter. I am using easystart spray also. Its turning fine but i think it should be turning faster to get it started. There is no smoke coming from the exhaust while it is trying to start - there is plenty of compression .

skyrydr2
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by skyrydr2 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:58 pm

Then you have no fuel getting to injectors!
There are a few issues you need to address or you will just ruin the pistons with starting fluid!
Make sure you have fuel in the injection pump! If not find out why, you can tow it to the moon and back and it will not start with out fuel.
Crack bleed screw on pump body and crank engine to see if it spays out big time! If not you have internal pump issues from charge pump at the rear of injection pump .(where fuel line connects to housing there is also a valve in there both this valve and the little pump behind this cover have to be working)
.

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erkki
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Re: David Brown 950 clutch problem

Post by erkki » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:06 pm

If there is no grey smoke from exhaust when cranking it is obvious that the injection system needs attention. An engine does not run without fuel.
After a long standstill I would not hesitate to change new filters, clean the lift pumps screen and bowl, bleed out fuel from the tank line to see if it flows free. Then just careful bleeding and a new trial with starter. Loosening one of the injection lines lets out the remains of air from the high pressure unit and it can be seen when some fuel bursts out from the loose connection when cranking. If no joy, the problem may be stuck metering valve in the injection pump. It is sometimes possible to make moving again without dismantling the top cover of the pump. You need an assistant who pushes the button and when the engine rotates, knock gently by a hammer to the injection pumps body. Do not hammer, just like knocking two inch nail to a fresh wood. Good luck.

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