1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

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aczlan
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by aczlan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:32 pm

On my 1965 880UE, it doesn't like to start unless the block heater has been plugged in and the engine is warm, reading (this thread: viewtopic.php?t=15047 among other sources), it looks like I should be able to replace the ether injector in the intake manifold with a thermostart heater/injector and plumb it into the return line of the tractor.
Should something like this work?
InkedIMG_20200118_144834812_LIB.jpg
InkedIMG_20200118_144834812_LIB.jpg (58.04 KiB) Viewed 561 times
Blue is the inline filter to create a small "tank" for it to draw from, then the new tee to head back to the tank, red is the hose going to the thermostart and yellow is the new thermostart.

I need to replace the keyswitch anyway (it is finicky about turning, the key has to be just right to turn and lubrication has not helped, it seems that the previous owner perhaps lost the key and found one that worked "close enough"), but once the key is turned it has no problem cranking, it just takes a lot of cranking to start it unless the block heater is plugged in (if the block heater is plugged in, it will start with ~5 seconds of cranking. If its not, its at least a minute of cranking).
It acts like our other tractors do when you dont use the glow plugs when its cold out.

I tried turning the cold start screw on the injection pump, but the shaft is frozen in the "nut" that it does through and if I can get a thermostart for $22 (plus a $2 filter, a tee and 3' of rubber hose, etc), is there a reason not to?

Thanks

Aaron Z

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db2d
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Location: Monmouthshire

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by db2d » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:45 pm

I suggest rectifying the fault with the cold start. Remove the complete unit by undoing the large nut. Secure the unit in a vice with the T piece uppermost and then undo the smaller nut. This part can then be worked on to free it by placing the T securely in a vice. Take care not to loose any parts from inside the large nut. New seals are available if required only from davidbrownparts.com

aczlan
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Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by aczlan » Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:04 am

db2d wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:45 pm
I suggest rectifying the fault with the cold start. Remove the complete unit by undoing the large nut. Secure the unit in a vice with the T piece uppermost and then undo the smaller nut. This part can then be worked on to free it by placing the T securely in a vice. Take care not to loose any parts from inside the large nut. New seals are available if required only from davidbrownparts.com
I agree that would be the ideal solution, however it is very stuck. I took the whole thing off of the pump and had the small shaft solidly gripped in a pair of vice grip pliers and was trying to rotate the nut, but I felt that I was approaching the point where I was going to snap off the small shaft with no movement at all between the two pieces (before I had the pliers tightened all the way they snapped off the rollpin that goes through and makes the tee shape).
It might go somewhere if I heated it up with a torch, but if I can save that hassle and add thermostart for under $40 (when I am going to replace the keyswitch and rewire everything to eliminate the previous owner's cobbed together mess of a wiring system anyway), is there any reason not to?
Then starting the tractor can all be done from the seat and all functions are the same between all of our tractors with no extra wear and tear on the starter(or the risk of someone using too much ether and blowing out rings) because they didn't remember to use the cold start lever.

Aaron Z

aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by aczlan » Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:24 am

Did an experiment today, tried starting it with no block heater (air temp 35-40F) and it wouldn't fire.
Stuck a 1500W heat gun into the intake, walked over, turned the key and it started right up.
From that I conclude that it will start happily with a thermostart injector added in to heat the incoming air, so I will order the parts to put one in.

Aaron Z

DRM
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Location: Warwickshire

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by DRM » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:13 pm

I've retrofitted a thermostart to my 1967 880 Selectamatic. It has no reservoir nor extra loops on the return pipe but seems to work just fine. After sitting for 4 weeks unused in an open barn over Christmas it started straight away after 10 seconds of heat. Attached is a photo - only temporarily wired to the ingition switch at the moment.
IMG_1560 - Copy.JPG
IMG_1560 - Copy.JPG (151.05 KiB) Viewed 470 times

aczlan
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by aczlan » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:46 pm

DRM wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:13 pm
I've retrofitted a thermostart to my 1967 880 Selectamatic. It has no reservoir nor extra loops on the return pipe but seems to work just fine. After sitting for 4 weeks unused in an open barn over Christmas it started straight away after 10 seconds of heat. Attached is a photo - only temporarily wired to the ingition switch at the moment.

IMG_1560 - Copy.JPG
Thanks for the picture, interestingly, my 880 had a banjo bolt instead of the compression fitting at the tank, but otherwise it looks like I should be able to copy your setup, I have a relatively straight spot where I could install a tee right after the 3rd injector (that will give me a little extra capacity using the fluid in the line from the tank to the tee).
Is your line going to the thermostart metal, or plastic?

Thanks

Aaron Z

DRM
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Location: Warwickshire

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by DRM » Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:51 pm

The line is copper. The pipe, fittings and thermostart came as a kit from Barclay Williams here in the UK.

David

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db2d
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by db2d » Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:38 pm

Factory fitted copper pipes were coiled to have a larger fuel capacity and later versions incorporated a small tank.

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ollek
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by ollek » Sun Jan 26, 2020 11:29 am

The following link takes you to a page in the parts catalogue, showing the two different setups used https://partstore.caseih.com/us/parts-s ... 6ar1271837

Gard
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by Gard » Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:37 pm

Do you know what the thread size is of your manifold and thermostart? I wonder if it would fit in my 990 implematic.
Diameter and threads per inch are fairly easy to measure if it is not installed yet.
Thanks

aczlan
Posts: 59
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, adding thermostart

Post by aczlan » Sat Feb 01, 2020 6:56 am

Everything I can find seems to say that they are all the same size/thread, the ones I am finding on Amazon all say that they fit a 990, or a Ford 2000, 3000, 4000, etc.
Going to order one and see if it works.

Aaron Z

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