1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

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aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:05 pm

Bump, anyone have any ideas as to how this happened and were to go from here?

Aaron Z

1952CROPMASTER
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by 1952CROPMASTER » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:03 am

That PTO shaft looks good to me a little wear on the splines wont hurt it, if it's the end that you are concerned about that's where the shaft has been machined down to fit into the pilot bearing that's normal,

aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:11 am

1952CROPMASTER wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:03 am
That PTO shaft looks good to me a little wear on the splines wont hurt it, if it's the end that you are concerned about that's where the shaft has been machined down to fit into the pilot bearing that's normal,
That is what I suspected, it looked more machined than worn down.
Any thoughts on if there is any way to get the hydraulic pump drive gear to mesh with the driven gear, or if I can get away with splash lubrication for the transmission?

Thanks

Aaron Z

1952CROPMASTER
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by 1952CROPMASTER » Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:17 am

Looking at your picture, it kooks like the Idler gear is not contacting the pump gear. The idler gear has a bearing in the center off it that may have failed, you will have to remove the PTO housing again, to see what's going on inside
you asked if the Transmission would get enough lube by splash from the gears, is this a 12 or 6 speed gearbox? if it's a 12 speed it has to be lubricated by the Hyd pump,

aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:30 am

1952CROPMASTER wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:17 am
Looking at your picture, it kooks like the Idler gear is not contacting the pump gear. The idler gear has a bearing in the center off it that may have failed, you will have to remove the PTO housing again, to see what's going on inside
You are correct, the idler gear is not contacting the pump gear, they appear to be about 1/4" apart (it took getting a inspection camera into there to find that out the other day as I couldn't see around the top of the lift pump with the PTO housing on).
I have the PTO housing off again, so I took the idler gear off tonight, bearing is tight and it meshes nicely with the gear on the PTO, so the problem seems to be that the pump has the wrong size gear on it.
Is there a source for other size gears? The gear on the pump appears to be about 3.75" in diameter.
From what I can see, it it would need to be at least 4.25" in diameter just to touch and about 4.5" in diameter to fully mesh with the intermediate gear (which meshes properly with the drive gear on the PTO shaft, so I know that it is the right size for this housing)
1952CROPMASTER wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:17 am
you asked if the Transmission would get enough lube by splash from the gears, is this a 12 or 6 speed gearbox? if it's a 12 speed it has to be lubricated by the Hyd pump,
This tractor has the 6 speed transmission in it, not the 12 speed transmission.

Aaron Z

aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:16 am

Went and took the gear off of the pump, it has 37 teeth, part number stamped into it appears to be 913380 which matches what it is supposed to be (per the various parts websites), outside diameter of the teeth is 3.89" per my cheapo digital composite micrometer.
Is it possible that someone put a different PTO housing on this tractor and that is why it doesn't line up?
If so, is there a larger gear available that I can swap on?

Aaron Z

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cobbadog
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by cobbadog » Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:51 am

An interesting issue you have there for which I have no answer. Unless other gears are wrong or there is an optional gear that will make it engage

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db2d
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by db2d » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:01 am

Check the drive gears in the PTO unit, it could be a miss match if either the pump or the PTO unit has been changed. Earlier tractors had straight gears and later versions had helical.

aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:53 am

db2d wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:01 am
Check the drive gears in the PTO unit, it could be a miss match if either the pump or the PTO unit has been changed. Earlier tractors had straight gears and later versions had helical.
All the gears in the PTO unit are straight cut (drive gears for the pump as well as the 540RPM and 1000RPM gears for the PTO itself).
Did the later PTO units that had helical gears to drive the pump also have straight cut gears to drive the PTO shaft?
If not, I am wondering if someone could have swapped straight cut pump gears into the housing that originally had helical pump gears after they somehow broke the original straight cut housing.

Aaron Z
Last edited by aczlan on Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:59 am

cobbadog wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:51 am
An interesting issue you have there for which I have no answer. Unless other gears are wrong or there is an optional gear that will make it engage
You are correct, there is no other mounting boss in the transmission case where another gear could be mounted and the intermediate gear that is installed meshes perfectly with the drive gear, so it seems that those are correct for the case.

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db2d
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by db2d » Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:36 am

The PTO gears are straight on all versions, it is the gears that drive the pump that can be different.
I think the pump gear should be 3 7/8” diameter but I am not exactly certain without measuring one.

I have just measured a helical gear and it is 3 15/16” dia. I would expect a straight toothed gear to be the same.

aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:18 am

db2d wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:36 am
The PTO gears are straight on all versions, it is the gears that drive the pump that can be different.
I think the pump gear should be 3 7/8” diameter but I am not exactly certain without measuring one.
I have just measured a helical gear and it is 3 15/16” dia. I would expect a straight toothed gear to be the same.
I measured the gear on the pump as being 3.89" in diameter last night which would be within 0.015 of the size that you listed for a straight cut gear and within .00475" of your measurement of 3 15/16” or 3.9375 for a helical gear (probably the same diameter but I didn't hold the caliper quite the same as you did), that would mean that the housing should be the same for both straight and helical gears.
Which brings me back to, what in the world got changed to cause the gears to not mesh and how can I fix it...
As the song says, one step forward and two steps back...

Aaron Z

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cobbadog
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by cobbadog » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:34 am

There has to be a reason for this issue. Are the other gears the correct ones and can they be fitted wrongly? It appears you have the right gearon the pump so now work backwards from there.

aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:46 am

cobbadog wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:34 am
There has to be a reason for this issue. Are the other gears the correct ones and can they be fitted wrongly? It appears you have the right gearon the pump so now work backwards from there.
I will check tonight, it would seem that the other gears should be correct as the intermediate gear meshes properly with the drive gear, the only way I can see that they could be wrong is if the drive gear is too big and the intermediate gear is too small, but as I recall, the drive gear is fairly close to the size of the driveshaft, so it doesn't have much room to go smaller.
I will pop the intermediate gear off again tonight and see what the part number on it is (should have done that last night when I had it apart).

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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by tomryall » Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:54 pm

If you had the pump apart would it be possible you put it back together wrong , maybe the drive gear and idler in the pump should be reversed,
just a thought I haven't had one of these off in years.

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