1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

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aczlan
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Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:01 pm

ollek wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:53 pm
The seat can not lift off the the pump body as the seat is locked in betwen the pump body and the valve body. If now the valve stricks to the seat, then the oil from the pump has no other way to go, than to push the non return valve open. The oil is now in the piping going to the lift cylinder and to the tcu valve via a t-piece in the piping. For a full pressure to the lift cylinder, the tcu valve must be closed.
The valve is not sticking, I think part of the problem was that the seats were swapped at some point (I dont think it was by me as I tried to keep them together), but it could have been.
One thing I noticed (before I reinstalled the right side rear cover) was that when I tried to lift and it stalled out, there was hydraulic fluid spraying out of that cover. Would that be the TCU valve bypassing?
To bypass the TCU and just have lift, hold and lower, should the TCU cable be fully retracted, or fully extended?

Thanks

Aaron Z

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ollek
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by ollek » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:06 pm

As informed in the Operators Manual, the cable must be fully retracted (disconnected) for the tcu valve to be fully closed. You must ensure that the cable is not sticking or stiff to move. If you have any problem with the cable, change the cable. I can not belive that you are using a Selectamatic Operators Manual. The Selectamatic hydraulic system is completely different to the Implematic system and there is also many other differenses, than the hydraulic system, betwen Implematic and Selectamatic tractors. You must have a manual for your tractor, a manual for a Selectamatic tractor, or a different Implematic model, is useless in your case. Get yourself the correct manual for your tractor. My remark about the valve sticking in the seat was ment as a reminder not to follow what Cobbadog wrote, as his statement was wrong.

aczlan
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:26 pm

ollek wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:06 pm
As informed in the Operators Manual, the cable must be fully retracted (disconnected) for the tcu valve to be fully closed. You must ensure that the cable is not sticking or stiff to move. If you have any problem with the cable, change the cable.
Not going to replace the TCU cable as I dont have a springloaded toplink and dont see getting on any time soon (not planning on doing any plowing with this tractor, we have a 4wd Kubota if we need to plow), so there is no benefit (to me) replacing it. I will push the cable all the way in (if it isn't already) and if it continues to be a problem, I will disconnect the cable from the TCU valve and remove it completely.
ollek wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:06 pm
I can not belive that you are using a Selectamatic Operators Manual. The Selectamatic hydraulic system is completely different to the Implematic system and there is also many other differenses, than the hydraulic system, betwen Implematic and Selectamatic tractors. You must have a manual for your tractor, a manual for a Selectamatic tractor, or a different Implematic model, is useless in your case. Get yourself the correct manual for your tractor.
I have the 880 Implimentatic Repair manual, just not the operators manual. I do have a 950 Implementatic operators manual which seems to match the TCU controls that I have on my tractor and the descriptions in the 880 Implementatic repair manual.
If the 950 Implementatic operators manual is different from the 880 Implementatic manual, where can I find a copy of the 880 Implementatic manual?
Edit: Just got your email with the manual, thanks!
ollek wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:06 pm
My remark about the valve sticking in the seat was ment as a reminder not to follow what Cobbadog wrote, as his statement was wrong.
Ah, the parts do not stick, so as I said, that wasn't on my mind as a possible reason for my problem.

Aaron Z
Last edited by aczlan on Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Gard
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by Gard » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:30 pm

I agree you need the manual for your specific implematic system.
I was able to get my implematic TCU system to work by building a simple bracket to hold the cable extended because I did not have a proper top link. The dimensions of the bracket was determined from the manual. My understanding is the TCU system results in an adjustable hydraulic back pressure to take some weight off the implement wheel and transfer it to the tractor rear tires. It does not really work to control height of an implement, it allows the implement to follow the ground while getting improved traction, so the hitch moves up and down as you move across varied terrain. I have found it works very well with a brushog type rotary mower that has a wheel in the back. A feature my more modern tractor does not have. I was eventually able to find a proper used top link from a breaker in the midwest USA. The top link was not needed for TCU (because I had the bracket) but it enabled the draft control feature which worked well with a back blade.
Finding the old part number from your parts manual and putting that into Google or better yet a tractor parts search engine has worked for me.

My implematic also has a height control position but this is very touchy, moving the control lever by a small amount results in a large change in height of the implement, this is not as nice as a more modern tractor but you get used to it and I believe it is normal for the implematics. On mine the cable is attached to a arm on the end of the ram shaft for height control. My older tractor does not control to a specific height but can raise the arms, slowly lower them to where you want and go to hold position that keeps it there until it is overloaded or moves for some other reason and you have to manually readjust it again. I do not know how yours is supposed to work.

Congratulations on getting it working, if you have additional problems next time we have a cold snap, I suggest changing the transmission oil again next July on a hot day. I think it would only take the smallest drop of water to turn to sludge and freeze to seize up some valve.

I have a working cold start valve on one tractor but find it more convenient to use a hot air gun or propane torch into the ether port on the tractor. The tank type heater on the radiator hose helps a lot but takes an hour or so. Pushing in the clutch even in netural seems to hep it spin faster. I like the idea of fitting a thermostart. I have gotten used to the newer tractor that starts from the seat. I now generally avoid either but think past use may of contributed to problems with the rings (low compression and blow by).

aczlan
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Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:46 pm

Gard wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:30 pm
I agree you need the manual for your specific implematic system.
I was able to get my implematic TCU system to work by building a simple bracket to hold the cable extended because I did not have a proper top link. The dimensions of the bracket was determined from the manual. My understanding is the TCU system results in an adjustable hydraulic back pressure to take some weight off the implement wheel and transfer it to the tractor rear tires. It does not really work to control height of an implement, it allows the implement to follow the ground while getting improved traction, so the hitch moves up and down as you move across varied terrain. I have found it works very well with a brushog type rotary mower that has a wheel in the back. A feature my more modern tractor does not have. I was eventually able to find a proper used top link from a breaker in the midwest USA. The top link was not needed for TCU (because I had the bracket) but it enabled the draft control feature which worked well with a back blade.
Finding the old part number from your parts manual and putting that into Google or better yet a tractor parts search engine has worked for me.

My implematic also has a height control position but this is very touchy, moving the control lever by a small amount results in a large change in height of the implement, this is not as nice as a more modern tractor but you get used to it and I believe it is normal for the implematics. On mine the cable is attached to a arm on the end of the ram shaft for height control. My older tractor does not control to a specific height but can raise the arms, slowly lower them to where you want and go to hold position that keeps it there until it is overloaded or moves for some other reason and you have to manually readjust it again. I do not know how yours is supposed to work.
Ah, that is probably what is referenced in the manual:
DBHeightControl.png
DBHeightControl.png (81.55 KiB) Viewed 659 times
Mine has the bracket, but the lever that it is supposed to attach to appears to be broken off inside the housing.
I wonder if the "reshaping of the leak-off control valve" is why that valve is a different shape than the main relief valve on my tractor?
Gard wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:30 pm
Congratulations on getting it working, if you have additional problems next time we have a cold snap, I suggest changing the transmission oil again next July on a hot day. I think it would only take the smallest drop of water to turn to sludge and freeze to seize up some valve.
No water in evidence, I have filled and drained the transmission 4 or 5 times now (to drain the transmission to take off the PTO housing) and I think I have it clean (and its been sitting inside the shop the whole time), I may change the fluid down the road, but for now I am comfortable with it.
Gard wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:30 pm
I have a working cold start valve on one tractor but find it more convenient to use a hot air gun or propane torch into the ether port on the tractor. The tank type heater on the radiator hose helps a lot but takes an hour or so. Pushing in the clutch even in netural seems to hep it spin faster. I like the idea of fitting a thermostart. I have gotten used to the newer tractor that starts from the seat. I now generally avoid either but think past use may of contributed to problems with the rings (low compression and blow by).
My block heater is actually installed in one of the freeze plugs on the left side of the engine (between the two rear cylinders and below the exhaust manifold), it only takes 15-20 minutes, but a thermostart should be much faster.
As for the clutch, I always press the clutch in when starting, that way there is no way for it to move unexpectedly.

Aaron Z

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db2d
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydrauli

Post by db2d » Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:58 pm

This post is rapidly approaching complete confusion switching from hydraulic problems to engine cold starting issues.
The valves in the valve chest on the pump are in their correct position and are the correct shape for the age of the tractor.
Height and draught control is controlled by the cable , as I have previously stated if TCU is in operation with the cable disconnected and fully retracted there is in all probability something wrong with the linkage setup in the control box.
Someone may have fitted a new control lever shaft and drilled the hole for the actuating lever mills pin inside the control box in the wrong position.

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cobbadog
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Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by cobbadog » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:53 am

cobbadog wrote:
Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:48 am
Glad you are getting closer to it working as designed. To my fading eyes when I look at the 2 valves E & F they look very similar with both having points at the bottom and that maybe the seat that the F valve sealed against has stuck to the bottom of that same valve. I know this is wrong but is what I first saw.

Oh dear, 'pick on cobba again week'. In my post I did say 'to my fading eyes' and at the end the last sentence states 'I know this is wrong but is what I first saw.'

I did state the obvious.

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