1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

The place to discuss all matters relating to David Brown Tractors. You will need to register your user name before you can post. If you have already registered could you please make sure that your location details have been completed. Go to My Account in the Main Menu on the left, and then go into "Edit Your Information" and complete your location details. Give the Country (and State/Province if you wish) if outside the U.K. County if within the U.K. Location details helps other members if you need spares, technical advice, or the nearest practical help.

DISCLAIMER -

David Brown Tractor Club Ltd
Forum/website Disclaimer

1. This [forum/website/chat room] and the advice and opinions expressed herein is not a solution for mechanical, electrical, valuations, other problems, breakdowns or issues experienced in relation to the vehicles referenced.

2. If reliance is thought to be placed on any of the information guidance or input provided such information will be expressly confirmed as appropriate to be relied upon.

3. In the absence of any such confirmation no reliance should be suggested or inferred.

4. Members must not disclose information to 3rd parties in anticipation that reliance will be given by non-members.

5. Non-members must not purport to give advice on behalf of David Brown Tractor Club.

6. If you or someone you know is experiencing difficulties or repeated breakdowns you must seek assistance for an appropriately qualified expert who holds themselves out as such.

7. Any comments are free of charge and made or posted on an ex gratia basis. No member or non-member may advertise their professional services

Any user inactive for more than 3 months will automatically be deactivated, please contact admin@dbtc.co.uk if you would like to be reactivated.

Please be aware that your user name and entered location can be seen by all members. We only store information you have entered which is your email address and username, your IP is also stored, we have no access to private passwords.

If you do not agree with your information being stored, please do not register an account, If you wish to unsubscribe at any time please email admin@dbtc.co.uk giving your username.

Amended 27/10/18

Moderators: Segrie61, admin

Locked
aczlan
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:19 pm

tomryall wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:54 pm
If you had the pump apart would it be possible you put it back together wrong , maybe the drive gear and idler in the pump should be reversed,
just a thought I haven't had one of these off in years.
Good catch, that appears to be the problem. I have not had the pump apart, but someone must have in the past.
Looking at the pictures I can find online, the drive gear should be on the right side of the tractor (approximately) lined up vertically with the stud that bolts through the center of the pump, like this:
DBPump.jpg
DBPump.jpg (6.87 KiB) Viewed 2087 times
On my pump, the gear is to the left of the stud, so whoever took it apart reversed the drive and idler gears when they put it back together:
DBPump2.jpg
DBPump2.jpg (83.98 KiB) Viewed 2087 times
Aaron Z

aczlan
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:03 pm

Ordered a set of Whitworth sockets on Amazon, they should be here tomorrow, then I can take the pump apart, verify wear and flip it around.

Aaron Z

User avatar
db2d
Posts: 2276
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:01 pm
Location: Monmouthshire

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by db2d » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:34 pm

The pump has been assembled wrongly. Strip it down and rebuild it. I wonder what the problem was initially that instigated dismantling the pump ?

aczlan
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:45 pm

db2d wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:34 pm
The pump has been assembled wrongly. Strip it down and rebuild it. I wonder what the problem was initially that instigated dismantling the pump ?
Time will tell, is there a rebuild kit that I should order, or just the orings that were mentioned earlier to seal the base end of the rotors?

Aaron Z

tomryall
Posts: 186
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:53 am
Location: canada

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by tomryall » Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:01 pm

David brown parts worldwide should have a complete seal kit for that pump.

aczlan
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:04 pm

tomryall wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:01 pm
David brown parts worldwide should have a complete seal kit for that pump.
I looked on their site (http://www.davidbrownparts.com/Hydraulic%20System.html), but don't see anything for the Implematic pump, just for the Selectamatic pump.
I will pull it apart, then look for orings.

Aaron Z

User avatar
db2d
Posts: 2276
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:01 pm
Location: Monmouthshire

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by db2d » Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:10 pm

I think the kit covers both pumps
Last edited by db2d on Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aczlan
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:36 am

db2d wrote:
Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:10 pm
I think the kit covers both pumps.
I don't think that it does. I took my pump apart tonight, the only rubber seals in it are the o-rings in the back of each side, those are both the same size and appear to be larger than the O-rings including that kit.
I will take the O-ring and the back bushing (or whatever it is called, the copper colored piece that the back ends of the gears ride in) in tomorrow and pick up a pair of o-rings to match the ones that are on there.
Pictures to follow when I get to my computer and can make the pictures small enough to be uploaded to the board here.

Aaron Z

aczlan
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:07 am

Pump without the gear:
IMG_20200109_153823084.jpg
IMG_20200109_153823084.jpg (105.52 KiB) Viewed 2064 times
End bushings:
IMG_20200109_155358137.jpg
IMG_20200109_155358137.jpg (66.59 KiB) Viewed 2064 times
Drive rotor:
IMG_20200109_155330220.jpg
IMG_20200109_155330220.jpg (36.84 KiB) Viewed 2064 times
Driven rotor:
IMG_20200109_155144319.jpg
IMG_20200109_155144319.jpg (33.81 KiB) Viewed 2064 times
Rotors with their end bushings and one of the two orings that goes behind them:
IMG_20200109_155050062_HDR.jpg
IMG_20200109_155050062_HDR.jpg (36.5 KiB) Viewed 2064 times
End plate:
IMG_20200109_155047410_HDR2.jpg
IMG_20200109_155047410_HDR2.jpg (49.18 KiB) Viewed 2064 times
Inside of the pump housing:
IMG_20200109_155022864_HDR2.jpg
IMG_20200109_155022864_HDR2.jpg (57.02 KiB) Viewed 2064 times
Aaron Z

User avatar
cobbadog
Posts: 917
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:18 am
Location: beautiful Coopernook NSW. near Taree. NSW. Australia

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by cobbadog » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:32 am

What great news that you have found the problem of the gears not meshing. Something that I have read about with hydraulic pumps is end float and this must be accurately measured and tolerances adjusted back to specs. One thing that can make the tolerances too big is wear on the end plate as fluid can pass by there instead of being pumped. So your manual should have all the tollearances and how to measure them to follow.

aczlan
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:00 am

cobbadog wrote:
Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:32 am
What great news that you have found the problem of the gears not meshing. Something that I have read about with hydraulic pumps is end float and this must be accurately measured and tolerances adjusted back to specs. One thing that can make the tolerances too big is wear on the end plate as fluid can pass by there instead of being pumped. So your manual should have all the tollearances and how to measure them to follow.
Actually, other than saying to not mix up parts, the manual (specifically, PDF pages 76-79 of: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9-7b ... 1RMQW80T0k ) doesn't say anything about adjusting the end plate tolerances. I suspect that is what the orings are for?

Aaron Z

User avatar
ollek
Posts: 4220
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:20 pm
Location: South West Finland

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by ollek » Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:50 am

There is no end float adjustments required tor this pump type. Pressurized oil is let into the back side of the end bushings and this is also called pressure balancing. The cutouts in the bushings are clearly shown in the pictures provided by the original poster. This will press the end bushings against the side of the rotors and no end float have to be measured. Cobbadog, some pumps in older tractors (30C) may need to be measured and adjusted for end float of the rotors, but not this one. After looking at the pictures it also looks like the pump gears will rotate in the the wrong direction for the pump to deliver pressure when the drive rotor is in the wrong position. The pump rotates in the same direction as the engine and the pressure is created betwen the rotors and the pump body, not betwen the rotors. Spinning the rotors with a drill (right hand turning) fitted to the gear nut will turn the pump in the wrong direction, and no pressure will be present if the rotors are fitted correctly. So, if the drive gears had been in contact, the pump would have sucking oil and air out of the hydraulic system and delivering this into the pump suction port.

aczlan
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:00 pm

It is all back together, waiting for the gasket maker to cure before I tighten up all the bolts that hold the PTO housing on.

Aaron Z

aczlan
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2019 2:52 am
Location: NY, USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by aczlan » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:06 pm

Tightened the PTO housing bolts down, poured the hydraulic fluid back in, started it up and it works:
DBIsAlive.jpg
DBIsAlive.jpg (92.55 KiB) Viewed 1995 times
Flow to lubricate the gears comes and goes depending on the position of the lever on the top of the pump (as it is supposed to), the 3 point tries to raise intermittently, I now need to adjust the 3 point linkage per the manual, re-install the front cover by the 3 point hitch lever so it stops leaking fluid out of there, remove the 3 way valve to replace the orings behind it (as it sounded like they may be leaking) and keep moving forward.

Aaron Z

Gard
Posts: 321
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:25 pm
Location: Fairfax Vermont USA

Re: 1965 David Brown 880UE Implematic, how to prime transmission hydraulic pump?

Post by Gard » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:32 pm

Congratulations on sorting out the pump problem, in hindsight it is clear from the exploded parts diagram that the drive is on the right. I always tend to put things back the way they were, I think in the future I will also check the parts diagram as they are going together! You never know who was in there last. The amount of knowledge and help from this forum always amazes me.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 26 guests