Hydraulic take off on db 25

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Ajax123
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Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:38 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by Ajax123 » Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:14 pm

Me again. Its been a while. I've finally gotten round to looking at the hydraulic take off valve on my 1953 DB 25 tractor. It was not running properly with the lift arms and the bucket on the rear loader dropping. It sprang a leak and j noticed the external banjo joint was very slightly loose in that I could move it by hand with a reasonable level of force. So as I had an OP booked in to repair a broken ankle.... yes it seems everything is breaking...probably age related.... I laid it up over the winter and left it alone hoping the problem might go away... of course it didn't.. so on Saturday I took the valve to bits, replaced the two internal banjo joint washers with new douty washers, took the copper washers out from the external banjo joint and heated them up with a blow torch to red hot and let them cool. Then cleaned everything up with an oily rag. Then put it all back together again. I took off the wheel in order to be able to get a better purchase in the flange nuts using an adjustable spanner. As I also had the carberretor off at the time I couldnt strike it up and test it. Put the carb back together and tried it all out this afternoon. Under loading the lift arms still drop but no where near as fast as they did previously. I have noticed a small drip on the rubber take off pipe joint where it joins the take off valve but dont think this would be enough to cause the issue... I'm happy to be corrected and will of course tighten this up. Theres no sign of external leakage and the hydraulics were absolutely fine before i put the valve on so dont think it's the pump. I remember the blanking plug I had to take out inmirder to fit the valve being incredibly tight (I had to tap the spanner with a hammer to get it moving). I thought this might have been due to its age. The oil level in the gearbox is about half way between low and high so should be sufficient oil.

The oil does need changing as its gbone cloudy/creamy but I dont think this would cause such an issue would it.

Do you think it is probably just a case if it still not being tightened enough. It's as if the internal banjo joint might be leaking letting oil out back into the gearbox.

Thanks in anticipation as always.

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cobbadog
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Location: beautiful Coopernook NSW. near Taree. NSW. Australia

Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by cobbadog » Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:42 am

Start by doing an oil change and a flush out then top up with clean oil after washing the filter at the bottom of the gearbox. Order some nice new copper washers and fit them. Make the bolts firm but not too tight This would at least fix these issues then go from there.

Ajax123
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:38 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by Ajax123 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:46 am

New oil ordered so will see if changing the oil and topping it up etc does the trick.

blissakpo
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Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by blissakpo » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:41 pm

Not sure about the 25 but if the filter is the same as the early 950 it sits in a rectangular plate with a drain plug in the middle. To flush the filter you need to drop that plate once you have drained the oil. The filter is held inside the plate using two spring clips. They say that you can reuse the gasket but from experience the filter can twist as you reinstall it and get trapped between the gasket and the plate resulting in a bigger leak than you had before. You may be lucky but I would have a spare sheet of gasket handy in case you need to cut a new one. Also when you refill with oil only stick about half a gallon in and check for leaks. Its is a real pain to have to drain a full gearbox of new oil out to cure the problem - I learned that the hard way, it took me three goes to realise what was going on and stop the sod leaking.

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db2d
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Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by db2d » Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:32 pm

What grade of oil are you going to use?

Ajax123
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:38 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by Ajax123 » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:41 pm

The book says sae 90 so that's what I've ordered. Made sure its not the ep grade. The stuff says suitable for vintage tractors and engines with yellow metal.

On a positive note I found that the gland nut had not tightened properly so managed go get another full turn on it. Hoping as suspected it just wasnt tight enough. It's the devils own job to get at the rear gland nut with a spanner though.... had to take the wheel off and seriously contemplated taking the mudguard if as well. Both are strange sizes too. Father in law gave me a whole bunch of whitworth and bsf spanners so I got a new tool box as well...

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cobbadog
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Location: beautiful Coopernook NSW. near Taree. NSW. Australia

Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by cobbadog » Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:25 am

Don't forget to flush the gearbox/diff as well before replacing with new oil. You can drive the tractor a short distance and stopping and starting quickly this helps mix the diesel with the old contaminated oil to get rid of as much as possible. Remember to leave your 3 point linkage down when draining the oils.
I am going to do mine again in due coarse just to make sure.

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db2d
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Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by db2d » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:06 am

Personally I would not recommend using diesel to flush the gearbox in any pre-1959 DB with a steel hydraulic pump.

Ajax123
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:38 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by Ajax123 » Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:39 pm

I dont think I'll bother with the diesel. It can sit and drain for a good few days once unplugged. Still got an issue with it dropping but no leaks so assume it's an oil issue. I notice the oil coming out of the pipe when I took the implement off was quite fizzy so I guess this wont help either. The saga continues :)

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cobbadog
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Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by cobbadog » Sat Apr 20, 2019 4:14 am

What would you recommend to do the flushing with db2d as I don't want to harm anything but it has been something suggested in other threads for flushing for this reason.

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db2d
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Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by db2d » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:42 am

When the hydraulic filter becomes contaminated on these old tractors,air can be drawn into the hydraulic system.
No new replacement pumps have been available for approximately sixty years and in many cases the original is still being used.
In some instances if diesel or something similar is used to flush the gearbox, the oil is removed from the pump resulting in priming becoming necessary. There are no seals in these steel pumps therefore when everything is a little worn and the oil has been replaced with diesel it is easier for air to be drawn In rather than oil.

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ollek
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Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by ollek » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:05 am

Cobbadog, there is a big difference between these old tractors and Implematics and Selectamatics. Implenatic and Selectamatic pumps are made of aluminium and the pumps have internal seals. In addition you will find that the pumps in the old tractors are mounted higher up in the transmission housing. You must not compare Cropmaster, 25D and other older models with Implematic and definitely not with Selectamatic The flushing with diesel is for Implematics and Selectamatics and no one have recommended this to be done in the o0lder tractors. For getting the contaminated oil out from these old tractors, I would recommend to change the oil and clean the suction screen twice.

Ajax123
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Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:38 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by Ajax123 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:45 am

I cant find a "suction screen" on my drawing. Would it be known as something else in the book?
Last edited by Ajax123 on Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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db2d
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Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by db2d » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:45 am

I do not understand your question but I think you could be referring to the magnetic gauze filter screen.

Ajax123
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:38 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Re: Hydraulic take off on db 25

Post by Ajax123 » Sat Apr 20, 2019 7:18 pm

Ah right. Yes will drop that out and clean it with petrol.

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