Page 3 of 4

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:24 pm
by db2d
I do not recognise the filters and seals you are referring to, Cropmaster, 25/30 and 900 tractors never had cork seals.
The observations by Broadsword and Ollek answer this subject very aptly.

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:50 am
by GeoffDEAL
Hi the Cropmasters 30c and Super Cropmasters still had the filters with cork end seals here have recently taken several out, a neighbours one still had a felt filter but he had washed it ! later filters on some had rubber lip end seals, so at some stage the end seals changed with both types probably sold at similar time depending on the maker. cheers Geoff

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:46 am
by db2d
Geoff you have demonstrated the fact that I have been making repeatedly on this forum for a long time.
The cartridge type filters with cork seals were not in the tractors when they left the factory and are not interchangeable with the originals. This filter is being marketed by parts suppliers as suitable for DB tractors,but it is not,for the previously discussed reasons.
The felt filter fitted in the aluminium canister on the early tractors was not upgraded to a paper type and is still widely available. This filter should have a steel disc as part of the sealing arrangement but is not part of the filter, these discs have been inadvertently discarded over the years.

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:01 am
by GeoffDEAL
Hi actually the filters with cork end seals were sold many years ago by the DB dealers as the replacement filters, not filter suppliers must have been ok as they are still in some old tractors. later filters had the rubber lip type end seals, as long as the combined filter and end seals is the same height as original filter and seals there will be no problems . cheers Geoff

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:33 am
by db2d
They were probably used because nothing else was available.

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:14 am
by cobbadog
This discussion is great as it brings to light as to what happens in different countries. In the UK where the D.B. product is made and sold both locally and then overseas shows what can happen around the world. Parts made in the U.K. are and rightly stated as being the correct part for this brand tractor. But when you send it elsewhere and fast moving service parts are substituted by the local dealers and therefore causing a contested discussion as to what is correct but it also highlights what does work and has worked well for many years. It possibly demonstrates that you may not necessarily always need OE parts to do a function.
For me I very much admire the long time expertise of db2d and of ollek and Geoff as well. All info may not be agreed on but the replacement parts do and have worked quite well.

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 7:04 pm
by db2d
Can you please tell me if any tests have been made in order to verify that the filters you say are compatible are sealing efficiently ?

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:11 pm
by GeoffDEAL
Hi Cliff have been checking the filter washers required, two washers the same as old cork or rubber lip seals are to much, it requires only one washer around 3 to 4 mm on one end only as the filter has small end seals on it. Make SURE the total height of filter and seals is the same as old filter that came out as with any replacement filter the lid that bolts down on the filter housing needs a slight pressure with its gasket on the filter end for it to seal correctly looks to be around .025 " gap for slight crush before tightening lid. Total filter and seals height is the key to correct fit and sealing. The surfaces in filter housing and lid are as cast and DB didnt machine the filter sealing surfaces and probably not necessary at 30 to 35psi if the old cork seals showed no sealing problems rubber seals could only be an improvement. The main problem with many filters specified by filter manufactures for the DBs is the diameter of the filters will not allow the filter to even fit the housing and the metal ends of the filters that do fit do not allow the seals on the filters to contact allowing un filtered oil.

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:04 pm
by db2d
The filters you are calling the “ old filter “ are not a DB official part. There are no part numbers or service bulletins referring to this. I have said repeatedly that they are not directly interchangeable whith the filters with the bellows type seal and therefore not entirely satisfactory.
The decision on what filter to use is the responsibility of the person fitting it.

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:03 pm
by GeoffDEAL
Hi just found on Sparex list an oil filter for 25 and 30D it is S 40535 listed as 155mm long by 72mm OD as all Sparex parts relate correctly to DB i will be getting one to try, was looking for another part and came across it. cheers Geoff

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:57 pm
by GeoffDEAL
Another filter that appears to have the correct rubber end seals attached bepco 60/96-3 for 25 30 and 900 tractors will check this one out, it is on their list with picture.

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 9:16 pm
by db2d
I have checked the Bepco filter 60963-3 and it is not suitable for the same reasons that I have mentioned previously.
The Sparex filter S 4053 is not suitable either for the same reasons

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:25 pm
by GeoffDEAL
Well got round to changing the oil and filter on my 25D the old filter turned out to be a Fleetguard LF 566 when i got it out, the ends were still well sealed with an old cork washer at the bottom and 2 thinner washers at the top, But when i removed it the paper part of the filter fell to bits, then i had to remove the filter housing from the engine to clean out all the rubbish. Also discovered that there are two types of housing caps the usual one has a cast hollow center piece that locates the top of the filter, But the one on the 25D has an outer ridge to locate the gasket but otherwise flat surface there is also a slightly different crush between the two so used a spare i had with the center locating piece, used a Sakura EO-30120 with a non return valve washer from a Z9 filter on top of filter only and everything fitted perfectly with the right amount of crush. Also both types of housing caps have the same part number stamped on the inside A35688 But both are different.

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:45 am
by baron_beeza
I am working on a 1956 Petrol 25 at the moment that has the taller oil canister than my Cropmaster. The Cropmaster is an early one with the felt type element.

I have read a few of the threads here and will be looking at a suitable replacement element for the 25. The pics will show the present element is shot. Interestingly enough, it has the same cork gasket arrangement Geoff spoke of. The element is only 140mm long though so the packers are a decent size. The canister measured about 160mm high, bottom internal surface to top lip. I will probably use the 155mm element that seems popular and use cork, felt or 'O' rings to provide the packing. The element is only subject to differential pressure from inlet to outlet so the pressure is likely to be 5 psi or less.

The bottom cork spacer is still in place in the pics but may have been about 8mm thick. The top two combined probably about the same.


Image

Image

Re: Engine Oil Filters.

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:36 am
by cobbadog
from memory when I replaced the engine oil filter element I used a filter that was identified as being for a Cummins diesel engine. It had the same dimensions as the old one I removed and it came with neoprene washers. I used another brand of filter which claimed to cross reference with the original but the OD was a tiny bit large and would not drop down into the housing without force so I returned it. I dont have the part number handy but I can find it up in the shed if anyone wants it.
It would appear by the amount of cork washers being found in D.B. tractor filters in N.Z to be a common practise and possibly supplied back then by the dealers. It should be understood that a direction from head office is not always obeyed nor is there always feed back from overseas dealers back to head office saying that they are substituting parts instead of importing expensive original parts.