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RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan conversion

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:14 am
by dbpower
:shock: David Brown 1412 6 cylinder Perkins for sale on ebay !
Its a rare Bentley Vaughan conversion -only 13 made !
There was a special fearture in classic tractor years ago about them
Good project for someone ! 8)

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:01 am
by db2d
Junk

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:06 pm
by ollek
A Perkins 6-cylinder engine under extended 1412 bonnet. This is not a David Brown, it is a mongrel. And after reading the text and looking at the pictures on ebay, I would say as db2d said, junk.

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:18 pm
by JamesF
There seems to be quite a bit of excitement about this tractor on other Db forums/pages

I personally can't see the excitement. I don't think a Perkins engine does anything for it at all and the cab is very far gone

Somebody likes it however, it's currently at £1650!!

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 6:49 pm
by dexta
whilst I understand this tractor may not be to everyones tastes and agree some aspects of it are in a poor way for example the cab, I am a little surprised at the lack of appreciation for what it is, a limited run of tractors, done by a person in a small workshop in the far end of Wales, with limited tooling.
some comments so far have been a little harsh, maybe even derogatory, perhaps another view is that in creating these 13 "mongrels" or "junk", he in effect kept 13 DB products in use which may well otherwise have been scrapped when the original DB engines went wrong, so although not true DB products in original order and specification, they are perhaps "mostly" DBs that at the time of conversion were able to return service and work to their owners and provide service and use for a further few years. in tis instance I suggest that the swapping to a perkins engine to allow them to lead working lives is an acceptable compromise to the possibility that they would have been weighed in.
however this is merely my own opinion and I understand I may/would come under some critism for the restoration of my own Cropmaster as some parts which weren't available to me on the budget I had, were substituted for other parts to continue the project and allow it to return to work, which had I had to save up to buy parts I couldn't afford, would have meant it wouldn't have returned to work or possibly even been completed.

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:00 pm
by case-ih1594
I'm with dexta here. I think we all agree this particular example is a bit 'rough', although it has obviously done more than a lifetimes work. Many of those Ford tractor conversions are desirable and the DB/Perkins one is part of DB history, albeit unofficially.

As is possibly eluded to, the original DB 1410/12 engine was perhaps a little over ambitious so the engine conversion was a good compromise for a tractor that had presumably experienced engine problems.

Speaking of DB conversions I saw a couple of years back a DB 25D with an engine fitted from a Diahatsu Fourtrak - that was interesting.

Back to the Bentley Vaughan tractors - does anyone have any original photos they could share (post)?

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:37 pm
by mart1602
bently vaughan converted these tractors when the engines went,usualy rod through block or other problem that meant origonal engine couldnt be saved.i am guesing the perkins were old combine engines theres always good low houred combine engines around,there was a 1410 4wd on ebay a few years ago that he had converted which made around 4 grand

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:43 pm
by mart1602
if you put in 1410 4wd on google images i think it will come up with perkins stickers on the bonnet

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 8:53 pm
by dbpower
There is also a video on youtube of a 6 cylinder DB ,looks like another Bentley Vaughan Converion . Its under 'david brown 1410 6 cyl perkins'. One hell of a nice sounding tractor .According to the article in Classic Tractor ,ex commercial engines were used which were higher reving ,capable of speeds up to 30 mph !!

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:43 pm
by dexta
also worth noting that this is a DB conversion we should possibly acknowledge, Bonser and Douglas used DB components and they appear to be accepted and featured in club magazine on occasion. the BV tractors are in effect along same lines, a mostly DB skid unit and panel work but with a different engine but built on a smaller scale.
Also of course built at a time when engine conversions were little heard of, never mind using a lorry/combine engine with home fabricated components to enable it to be fitted but service and repair parts available from either the original DB dealer (tractor parts) or a commercial workshop (lorry engine service parts). quite a feat going back 30/40 years, in a small tin and block workshop on an industrial park in west wales, nowhere near the large engineering centres found in England. also this conversion seemed to work better than the original product in a lot of cases....

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:52 pm
by mart1602
a good friend of mine is big pals with bentley and used to work on these tractors back in the day,will have to go an meet him one day if the chance arises if anyone has seen dylan davies 1412 restoration i think bentley supplied him some hard to find parts

RE: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan convers

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 12:35 pm
by TEZB
Probably something David Brown's should have done instead of trying to get nearly 3 time's the power out of the original design.

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:56 pm
by broadsword
Surprised they even considered putting that 6.354 Perkins engine in them - right load of rubbish, I mean Perkins only made just over a million of the things.
Would have been much better with one of those `bombproof` 6 pot Brown engines fitted..... :roll:

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:05 pm
by Scooby
broadsword wrote:Surprised they even considered putting that 6.354 Perkins engine in them - right load of rubbish, I mean Perkins only made just over a million of the things.
Would have been much better with one of those `bombproof` 6 pot Brown engines fitted..... :roll:
"right load of rubbish" ? I don't think so. I've had a combine with one in it, a tractor with one in it, and now my Track Marshall 155 crawler has got one in it, with a turbo.

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:29 pm
by case-ih1594
I detect sarcasm from broadsword - who probably has a point. I wonder how Perkins engines compare to DB engines (4 or 6 cylinder) in terms of serious malfunctions such as con-rods parting company, valves dropping etc. ?

I have seen various DB engines with such problems but, joking aside, do Perkins, or Ford engines also suffer ?