RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan conversion

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broadsword
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Location: Holmfirth, Huddersfield

Post by broadsword » Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:59 pm

Sarcastic moi?? :wink: .

Always had a high regard for the Perkins lumps, damn fine diesel engine, but then that's what (like Gardner) they made and specialised in. Only got the total number of the production off Wikipedia.
Interesting though as the P4/P6 is what made Perkins reputation but between the P6 and 6.354 they had the R6, rushed development (going off Wikipedia) and a howler which dented their reputation but they soon remedied(sounds familiar with the CAV pumps on the DB900 and I think they also had the same issue on the grey/gold fergys which came out the same time) - doesn`t take much to dent a reputation as DB found out.
Not sure on fords - although the old Major engine barring the sponge block issues were supposedly unbreakable.
I don`t think (??) they ever had any issues with the Perkins engines to be honest - as TEZB says though trying to get too much power out of a 3 bearing crank engine is where it all starts going wrong.

Scooby
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Post by Scooby » Sat Nov 19, 2016 5:15 pm

My only experience with Ford engines in tractors started with the Power Major which was 'orrible indirect injection and lifeless but then the Super had a bombproof engine in it and with direct injection would fire up on the frostiest of mornings. My first JCB digger had a Super Major skid unit underneath it and that was very good. I did have to grind the crank and re-shell it soon after I bought it and had the shock of my life when I took it apart.

Someone had put timfoil between the shells and the caps just to save doing what I had to do eventually anyway. :roll:

I had a problem with a Ford engine on a combine, a 2704E. It used to drink oil and I was told it was because they had put chrome rings and chrome liners together. I had it re-bored and fitted cast liners and chrome rings and she ran like a dream until I sold it.

I also have a 6 pot DB and that has been a very good engine as well.
ImageImage


Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

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rough990
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Location: Clitheronia, Ribble Valley

Post by rough990 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:08 am

Scoob, you need to re-read B'swords post, as 1594 hints at. I would be hard-pushed to list all the applications of the 6.354, wagons, tractors, combines, gen-sets and irrigation pumps. It's the engine that saved Perkins after the problems with the infamous R6. These conversions were made at a time when there were no big six cylinder tractors around. Farmers looked for extra power for foragers especially.

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rough990
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Post by rough990 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:13 am

Every E1A Major was direct injection. No idea what was up with your Power Major, but all of them had the best starting of any engine since. Even worn out, badly maintained Majors would fire with the most half-hearted cranking.

Scooby
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Post by Scooby » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:28 am

rough990 wrote:Every E1A Major was direct injection. No idea what was up with your Power Major, but all of them had the best starting of any engine since. Even worn out, badly maintained Majors would fire with the most half-hearted cranking.
As I said "In my experience"
We had both a Power and a Super and ignoring the brakes, diff-lock and the hydraulics you would have thought that they were from two totally different manufacturers. I was quite convinced that anything up to the Super was indirect injection.
ImageImage


Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

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tomwill
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354 perkins

Post by tomwill » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:29 am

hello there i am back been out of action for a while,regarding the 354 perkins i remember this conversion in a tractor magazine a while back, i had 2 trucks with 354s in had a good run with both,i have also had a 1412 i would not replace a 1412 engine with 354 yes probably a bit more power, look after a 1412 engine and theres nothing better in the 90 hp range. TomW DBTCA.

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tomwill
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Post by tomwill » Fri Dec 02, 2016 7:49 am

Scooby wrote:
rough990 wrote:Every E1A Major was direct injection. No idea what was up with your Power Major, but all of them had the best starting of any engine since. Even worn out, badly maintained Majors would fire with the most half-hearted cranking.
As I said "In my experience"
We had both a Power and a Super and ignoring the brakes, diff-lock and the hydraulics you would have thought that they were from two totally different manufacturers. I was quite convinced that anything up to the Super was indirect injection.
iHAVE DRIVEN BOTH THE POWER AND THE SUPER MAJORS BRAND NEW I THOUGHT THE THE POWER HAD THE EDGE AS I THINK THEY CHANGED THE RATIOS UP ON THE SUPER,HOWEVER NEITHER CAN MATCH A 990 iMPLEMATIC, I HAD AN EXPERIENCE IN jAN 1965 AT THE AGE OF 19 WENT TRACTOR driving ON THE nsw QLD BORDER WHEN I ARRIVED THERE THE OWNER SAID THERES YOUR TRACTOR A NEW jOHN DEERE 4020 I DROVE THAT TRACTOR FOR 3 WEEKS FOR 10 SHILLINGS AN HOUR,CAME HOME A MAN RANG UP FOR ME TO DRIVE HIS TRACTOR THAT WAS A NEW SUPER MAJOR OLD STOCK AS THE fORD 1000 SERIES HAD COME OUT cheers TomWill DBTCA

Scooby
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Post by Scooby » Fri Dec 02, 2016 9:50 am

tomwill wrote:iHAVE DRIVEN BOTH THE POWER AND THE SUPER MAJORS BRAND NEW I THOUGHT THE THE POWER HAD THE EDGE AS I THINK THEY CHANGED THE RATIOS UP ON THE SUPER,HOWEVER NEITHER CAN MATCH A 990 iMPLEMATIC, I HAD AN EXPERIENCE IN jAN 1965 AT THE AGE OF 19 WENT TRACTOR driving ON THE nsw QLD BORDER WHEN I ARRIVED THERE THE OWNER SAID THERES YOUR TRACTOR A NEW jOHN DEERE 4020 I DROVE THAT TRACTOR FOR 3 WEEKS FOR 10 SHILLINGS AN HOUR,CAME HOME A MAN RANG UP FOR ME TO DRIVE HIS TRACTOR THAT WAS A NEW SUPER MAJOR OLD STOCK AS THE fORD 1000 SERIES HAD COME OUT cheers TomWill DBTCA
Morning Tom, hope all is well with you and your family. Sorry but I have to disagree with you about the Majors. Don't know how you can compare the Power to the Super. The SM had disc brakes, draft and position control on the hydraulics, and a diff-lock. And most of the PMs were not livedrive either.

And for that little bit extra on the road whip the mushroom off the aircleaner and stick it on the PTO lever for safe keeping and she would do another 200rpm !
:lol:
ImageImage


Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

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manxmac
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rare David Brown

Post by manxmac » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:47 am

Back in the day I served my time at Perkins who had recently developed the P6. Petrol engines still dominated the car and truck markets and Perkins launched conversion kits for most commercial and some car types. The P6 was the standard engine at the time but other versions were introduced to cater for different markets, the R6 stood for Road 6 engine developed for high speed coaches and trucks running on the new motorway system, there was also an M6 for marine applications. Not enough development work had been done and all were replaced by the magnificent 6354 which was in just about everything for the next 30 or 40 years. There was an L4 developed for agricultural use, P4 was very popular as a taxi conversion at the time.

JamesF
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RE: rare David Brown

Post by JamesF » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:56 pm

The Bentley 1412 has reappeared for sale on eBay

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tomwill
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Post by tomwill » Thu Dec 08, 2016 12:50 am

Scooby wrote:
tomwill wrote:iHAVE DRIVEN BOTH THE POWER AND THE SUPER MAJORS BRAND NEW I THOUGHT THE THE POWER HAD THE EDGE AS I THINK THEY CHANGED THE RATIOS UP ON THE SUPER,HOWEVER NEITHER CAN MATCH A 990 iMPLEMATIC, I HAD AN EXPERIENCE IN jAN 1965 AT THE AGE OF 19 WENT TRACTOR driving ON THE nsw QLD BORDER WHEN I ARRIVED THERE THE OWNER SAID THERES YOUR TRACTOR A NEW jOHN DEERE 4020 I DROVE THAT TRACTOR FOR 3 WEEKS FOR 10 SHILLINGS AN HOUR,CAME HOME A MAN RANG UP FOR ME TO DRIVE HIS TRACTOR THAT WAS A NEW SUPER MAJOR OLD STOCK AS THE fORD 1000 SERIES HAD COME OUT cheers TomWill DBTCA
Morning Tom, hope all is well with you and your family. Sorry but I have to disagree with you about the Majors. Don't know how you can compare the Power to the Super. The SM had disc brakes, draft and position control on the hydraulics, and a diff-lock. And most of the PMs were not livedrive either.

And for that little bit extra on the road whip the mushroom off the aircleaner and stick it on the PTO lever for safe keeping and she would do another 200rpm !
:lol:
David i need your mailing contact as i have A parcel to send you, my new email is dbtca880@GMAIL.COM.CHEERS tOM

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richbug
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Post by richbug » Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:18 pm

Someone have a link? I can't find it.
Users: 780, 1210 Bottle Opener, 1494 4wd open station with 74L, 990, 1394, 1194 High Clearance, another 1394, 1194 LCG, 1290 with 56L, 900, 885 with LS8, 885, 1190

1200, 900 projects, 780,

Parts: 3800, 1200, 1394, 1412, 1490, 770, 885, 990SEL, Red 990I,

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1210
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Re: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan conversion

Post by 1210 » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:30 pm

When Bentley Vaughan done these tractors db had not made the db 6 pot engines and local farmers wanted more power to drive foragers at the time.bentley Vaughan knows his david browns inside out he was trained in db heyday that's nearly all he ever worked on,still got a 1494 now that I got off him 25 years ago and he repaired the hydrashift on that and it still goes to this day.

joeproctor
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Re: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan conversion

Post by joeproctor » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:14 pm

some interesting comments for and against,i have seen this bv conversion in the flesh it is well thought out,i think this would have been a better bet than the four pot and could have stretched db into the next era putting out well over 130hp wether the dp transmission could stand this i'm not sure,maybe i should look into doing a few it would certainly give a new lease of life to some dead tractors that i have seen of late!
be interested in anyone with a six pot db that has been tweeked to give out more than the 130hp and how long its life expectancy is ,i know of the chap that does tractor pulling but this is stripped regularly of course, lets here from you high horse power men!
anyone got a turbo charged three potter?

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erkki
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Re: RARE DAVID BROWN 1412 6 CYLINDER Bentley Vaughan conversion

Post by erkki » Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:28 pm

Joeproctor,

Tractor News has shown a few years ago an article about a 880 selectamatic in Australia, which got turbo, power lift from a 990 and beefy tires. The owner was very happy on the tractors 67 horsepower. That is probably not the only one in the world. Transmission is mostly identical with 990, so it will withstand enhanced power. My guess is that the tractor must be sort of pocket rocket.

David Brown kept the six potter on a drawing board since times of 50D but obviously the production cost/expected sales did not switch the green light to the production before about 1975. 1410/1412 are clearly built for high torque six but the timing was not synchronized with the engine department.

Mike Brogden could tell that synchro transmission caused more trouble in six-potter series that HS -box. I do not know details but some rumors about some weak differentials has been in the air. I think 120...125 can be found from a charged six simply by adjusting the pump.

W.B.R erkki

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