990 pto issues

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ollek
Posts: 3815
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:20 pm
Location: South West Finland

Post by ollek » Sat Dec 19, 2015 10:17 am

You can not find this in any service manuals, but believe me, the information given is correct and is based on decades of experience collected from hundreds of fitters and Service Managers around the world as well as from personal at the DB factory. Think carefully before you call an expertise information "theoretical twaddle". Please remember that I am an engineer and that I have been the Service Manager in Finland for David Brown, Case and CaseIH tractors from 1972 to 1999. I do believe that I know a fair amount about David Brown and other tractors tractors. DB780, I do hope that you can start to accept the trough and stop arguing about this matter. If you like to do it your way to your customers, please do so, but please tell the customer about the risks involved in doing this. I would anyhow ask you to stop giving instructions that can lead to expensive repairs, on this forum. Please remember that this is a international forum and I do think that one mans personal, and wrong, believe shall not be spread around the world.

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DB780
Posts: 1628
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Post by DB780 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:19 pm

ollek wrote:You can not find this in any service manuals, but believe me, the information given is correct and is based on decades of experience collected from hundreds of fitters and Service Managers around the world as well as from personal at the DB factory. Think carefully before you call an expertise information "theoretical twaddle". Please remember that I am an engineer and that I have been the Service Manager in Finland for David Brown, Case and CaseIH tractors from 1972 to 1999. I do believe that I know a fair amount about David Brown and other tractors tractors. DB780, I do hope that you can start to accept the trough and stop arguing about this matter. If you like to do it your way to your customers, please do so, but please tell the customer about the risks involved in doing this. I would anyhow ask you to stop giving instructions that can lead to expensive repairs, on this forum. Please remember that this is a international forum and I do think that one mans personal, and wrong, believe shall not be spread around the world.
Every time you come out with this crap about your years of experience and telling me to stop arguing when I should bowing to your superior knowledge. Every mechanic I have met will adjust the PTO adjusters it is something we have be taught and read in service manuals but all that must now change be some guy in Finland says it's wrong. So the next time someone goes to a tractor where the PTO fails and tells the owner you need a new transmission plate and then splits the tractor what happens when that owners looks at the plate and sees very little wear. I'll tell what will happen the plate will bounce across the service managers desk and the owner will say 'I say my good man why did your mechanic change this plate'.

So don't ask me to stop giving advice I know to be true.

John_Allen
Posts: 1894
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 3:59 pm
Location: Cumbria UK

Post by John_Allen » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:14 am

It's a shame when two respected forum members disagree in public on something that is more than likely to be somewhere between the two opinions.

When I worked for the DB agency, the fitters rebuilt clutches, fitting new separator plates, pressure plates, springs etc to most of the double-clutch tractors (only Borg and Beck clutches). In those days, the parts were a stock item - and easily obtained! On more than one occasion I saw the "tractor expert" underneath adjusting the PTO clutch when the tractor was in for other repair/service work: the customer would have said the PTO was hard to engage but the "breakdown" that they were called out to would not have been to do with the clutch - much the same as asking them to change a bulb when the tractor was in for new brake linings. The fitter used to say something like "You haven't seen me doing this" - implying that it wasn't something that was done routinely.

I've seen the PTO clutch adjusted more often on small MEs (eg 35/135 etc) and had an argument with a farmer who had a 135 with a PTO that was hard to engage. He insisted the tractor had to be split to adjust the clutch, but I'd seen it done and knew the problem was that the loader frame covers the "access hole" and I wasn't going to drop the loader to prove him wrong! However, if memory serves, the MF adjustment was on the fingers and was supposed to be done with a "special tool". I did ask one MF-trained fitter what settings he used and he came back with something like "Just enough clearance to stop the grating!"

I did adjust the PTO clutch on my 780 when I bought it as the main clutch was way out of adjustment (the tractor couldn't get up the ramp to the trailer when I bought it). However, that was twelve years ago and I haven't adjusted it since - though the tractor hasn't done a lot of proper work and I don't use the PTO. If I do have problems in the future, I won't even think of adjusting the PTO clutch - it will be a case of getting the tractor split and a new clutch (and/or friction plates) fitted. I suspect that's how both fitters I mentioned worked - they both knew the tractors and customers well enough to know when the clutches were replaced and probably knew when they would need replacing again!

Scooby
Posts: 3929
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:16 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Post by Scooby » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:21 am

Gentlemen, let me say what I think is happening here. On the one hand we have people who have spent most of their DB time training others how to repair tractors. And on the other we have people who have been to the training schools but who are at the sharp end and having to compromise at times.

My crude example of this would be lighting a paper bag and holding it over the air intake when a tractor wouldn't start on a very frosty morning. Now you will never find that in any company manual, but we have all done it to get going.

And likewise the clutch adjustment. I have seen DB trained dealer men do that to my tractors. It might have been frowned upon by the people running the training courses but it got me going at a time that was critical.

And remember one more thing please. Internet forums bring out the worst in people. We write things that we wouldn't normally say to people's faces. Internet forums are for discussion, debate, and dissemination of information. Let's keep it like that please.
ImageImage


Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

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DB780
Posts: 1628
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2005 4:06 pm
Location: Lincolnshire

Post by DB780 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 8:52 am

Scooby wrote:Gentlemen, let me say what I think is happening here. On the one hand we have people who have spent most of their DB time training others how to repair tractors. And on the other we have people who have been to the training schools but who are at the sharp end and having to compromise at times.

My crude example of this would be lighting a paper bag and holding it over the air intake when a tractor wouldn't start on a very frosty morning. Now you will never find that in any company manual, but we have all done it to get going.

And likewise the clutch adjustment. I have seen DB trained dealer men do that to my tractors. It might have been frowned upon by the people running the training courses but it got me going at a time that was critical.

And remember one more thing please. Internet forums bring out the worst in people. We write things that we wouldn't normally say to people's faces. Internet forums are for discussion, debate, and dissemination of information. Let's keep it like that please.
I am sorry David but someone has told me to stop giving advise that despite what you have written was taught by Meltham service school instructors and written in the official DB service manual.

I will however say no more on this subject until I am criticised again on it of course.

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case-ih1594
Posts: 1065
Joined: Sun May 12, 2013 10:38 am
Location: Preston

Post by case-ih1594 » Sun Dec 20, 2015 9:24 am

Hi, an update or some kind of acknowledgment may be useful from the original poster to find out what course of action, if any, has been taken.

Scooby
Posts: 3929
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:16 pm
Location: Warwickshire

Post by Scooby » Sun Dec 20, 2015 10:01 am

DB780 wrote:I am sorry David but someone has told me to stop giving advise that despite what you have written was taught by Meltham service school instructors and written in the official DB service manual.
I will however say no more on this subject until I am criticised again on it of course.
David, I don't think that anyone has told you to stop giving advice. I certainly don't want you to stop, that's why I invented and awarded the DB Trusted logo to some of you in the first place. What was said to you, and I would repeat it to everyone, is to stop arguing.

Arguments lead to slanging matches and that is not good for this Forum. Of course there will be differences of opinion and it's healthy that they should be aired.

BUT. And this applies to everyone, there is no need to get into a heated argument about anything. The way to put forward any difference of opinion is to debate and inform.

And sometimes there is more than one answer to a particular question. Consider this :

Did it rain at my farm yesterday ? Yes.

Was it raining at my farm yesterday ? Yes and no.

All three answers are correct because the rain was intermittent.
ImageImage


Three is twee, four does snore, but 6 just clicks........Scooby

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db2d
Posts: 2094
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:01 pm
Location: Monmouthshire

Post by db2d » Sun Dec 20, 2015 11:03 am

I received a phone call from the original poster and he explained that he needed the tractor for driving a wood saw. I explained all the issues involved with resetting the internal adjustment and that it should be regarded as temporary. He is happy with that and the tractor is now working.

When clutch plates are installed the gap on the PTO adjusting screws should be set at 0.070 inches

The method often quoted on this forum is to turn the screw in until it touches the plate and then back off one and a half turns.

The 990 Implematic clutch can have either 1/4 UNF or 5/16 UNF threaded screws.
The tighten and back-off method for these screws is two turns for the 1/4 and one and three-quarters for the 5/16. For people who cannot readily differentiate between these sizes a feeler gauge should be used.

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