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Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:19 am
by tomwill
Hello everyone Xmas is closing in fast, I thought I might buy myself another DB looking at a DB1212 looks very clean and straight[white and orange]I do not think it will much money as to the area it is in, any comments on this model, I know the hydra shift can be an issue as out in this country some fellows could not drive a billy cart !!! Cheers TomWill DBTCA

RE: DB1212

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:02 am
by ollek
The tractor is really a 1210 with a Hydra Shift gear box. The engine is the same as in 995 and 996, but the 1210 and 1212 has a in line injection pump. The clutch in a 1212 is the same as in 1210 and 996. The hydraulic system is the same as in all Selectamatic tractors. The difference is that the 1210 and 1212 have a hydraulic pump driven off the front of the crank shaft. The only issue I can think of, is that some 1210 tractors experienced broken crank shafts. The most common reason for this was that people was constantly lugging down the engine. Lugging down the engine in a 1212 is not necessary as the shifting down ís so easy. But, some users did not realize this and they used the tractor as it would have a normal gear box. There is not very match to go wrong if the tractor has been used and maintained correctly. And well, the age of the tractor can on its own give some issues, but this is well known by us all.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:26 am
by Scooby
Hello Tom, hope all is well over there. I had quite a few 1212 tractors over the years when I was running my contracting business and would always buy another one. But there are a couple of issues that you need to be aware of, one already has been mentioned. I did have one that the crank went on. It was a nearly new tractor and so a warranty job but I was told, unnoficially, that DB were experiencing a few crank problems at the time. Never had the problem again on any other 1212s.

It is really all about how the tractor has been driven and serviced. But one thing that I have encountered on hydrashift tractors is hardening of the seals in the clutch packs. The symptoms are being slow to change between certain gears and slippage when they do go in. They are O.K. when warmed up though and so the secret is to go and visit the tractor when it's cold and start it up and drive it around, preferably in top gear and go through the hydrashift box, ideally along the road. That way the transmission will be cold and if the seals have gone hard the clutch packs will slip until she gets warm.

Good luck and Happy Christmas. David.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:01 am
by Guest
The engine in the 12 series tractors are not the same as the 9 series tractors, they are an uprated variant of the earlier 1200 and have many differences. You can't put a quart in a pint pot!

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:14 am
by ollek
The 995, 996, 1200, 1210 and 1212 all have the 4/55 engine. This same engine was also used in the later 990 models. The engines are the same, the differences is in the settings of the rotary injection pump (9-series) and in that the 1200, 1210 and 1212 have an in line injection pump. All mechanical parts in the 4/55 engines are the same, regardless of witch tractor model the engine is fitted to. It would be nice to know what these "many differences" are. I would like to see a list of the so called differences.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:14 pm
by Guest
The later 990 employed the 4/49 engine, not the 4/55. The differences between the 12 and 9 series engines are the crank journals and associated parts having been 'beefed up' and many other components to withstand the higher hp. The 995 engine is a 4/55051, 996, 4/55071, 1210, 4/55001 and the 1212, 4/55031.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:28 pm
by ollek
I have to correct myself. All 990 models had the 4/49 engine (short stroke). The earlier 1290 also had the 4/49 engine and the later 1290 tractors had the 4/55 engine (long stroke). The bigger crankshaft and stronger pistons and other changes came in when the turbocharged engine was introduced for the 1410 and 1412. This engine was the 4/55T (T for turbo). The engine types you have listed are all 4/55 engines and have the 100 mm cylinder diameter and a 114,3 mm stroke. The 4/49 engine had a 100 mm cylinder diameter and a 101,6 mm stroke. The difference between the 4/49 and 4/55 engines is the trough of the crankshaft and the positioning of the gudgeon pin to give different stroke. The main and crank bearings are the same(same diameter) in both engine types. And by the way, the numbers in the engine type after the 4/49 or 4/55 relates to different injection settings and different clutches and other engine accessories and has nothing to do with the basic engine.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:24 pm
by Guest
Not all 990's had the 4/49 engine, you're forgetting the earlier 4/47. The 4/55 engines were basically the same engine block casting with varying internal differences depending on the model. The 14 series engines were 4/55011 and the letter T does not appear on them and were still 72hp as the 1210, 1212, the engine power increased to 83hp with the introduction of the 1490.

Tom, the 1212 is a very good workhorse, a bit 'sluggish' but a reliable 'plodder' and we all know the pro's and con's of the Hydra-Shift gearbox.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:58 pm
by ollek
Be carefully in your statements. The engine in the 1410 and 1412 was designated 4/55T in different literature from the manufacturer to differ from the normally aspirated 4/55. The turbo charged engine in the 1410 / 1412 had 91 hp. The engine in the 1210 / 1212 still had 72 hp and no turbo. The 1490 had a 4/55T turbo engine with 83 hp. The 1390 had a non turbo 4/55 with 67 hp.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:06 pm
by broadsword
I`d recommend one of them `big` Chamberlains Tom. :wink: .

Good Luck


Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 2:41 pm
by Guest
I don't know where you get the 91hp to for the 1410/1412, in the operator handbook it shows the engine develops 69.73bhp at 2000rpm (approximately 52Kw)

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:01 pm
by Anne
PR, we've been down that road before, remember? I'm getting tired of correcting false info. ... highlight= ... highlight=

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:02 pm
by ollek
The maximum power output for the 4/55T in a 1410 is 91 din horse power at 2300 rpm. If you do not believe me, look in the "Link to specifications" for 1410 by clicking on "DB Tractor Range" in the left hand column in this page. There is a graph that shows the engine hp on different engine revs (curve A). The power output on 2000 engine rpm is for 1000 rpm pto, not the maximum hp for the engine. The pto power is, according to the information, 72 hp and the engine hp must therefore be more than 72 hp on 2000 rpm. And as Anne have said, many of us are getting tired of having to constantly correct false information.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:15 pm
by Scooby
Powerrabbit wrote:I don't know where you get the 91hp to for the 1410/1412, in the operator handbook it shows the engine develops 69.73bhp at 2000rpm (approximately 52Kw)
The 1400 series were always sold as a 91hp tractor. I think everyone would appreciate a bit of contrition for the above false assertion.

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:43 pm
by Guest
I think that the confusion here in the hp ratings is that the quoted 69.73 is Imperial brake horsepower, the 91 figure is measured in DIN horsepower which is the Metric rating. There are several points at which power transmission can be measured and rating figures printed in the operators books can vary depending on how the measurement was taken.