HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

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stuartyd11
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Joined: Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:33 pm
Location: Scotland

HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by stuartyd11 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 9:41 pm

Looking for a bit of advice. I have a 1952 Super Cropmaster which has recently developed an oil leak. The oil appears on the floor under the middle of the tractor. If I put my hand into the inspection hole in the chassis (through which you can see the clutch and flywheel) i can feel that it's damp with fresh oil. When i run the engine the oil pressure sits steady at 15 psi. I am unsure if the leak is coming from the engine or the gear box as it is damp on both sides through the inspection hole.it is not a massive pool of oil and develops over night.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Stuart

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RE: HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by Guest » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:14 pm

Is the oil Stuart clean or black? Black will be from the engine, clean from the gearbox. In either scenario it will be a seal that's gone. If the leak is not great you may be lucky in sealing it by using a product called Stop Leak. This is a sort of oil that you pour in your engine, gearbox, power steering pump etc which is supposed to 'revitalize' the seals and 'stop the leak'. The quantity you use is I think from memory, 25% volume, meaning that whatever quantity the unit holds in oil then you put in 25% of that amount of Stop Leak, this of course is probably quite impractical because of the quantity that you'd need to use and would probably work out cheaper to replace the seal that's leaking. There may be other products on the market that does the same job but how reliable any of them are I can't really say.

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stuartyd11
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Location: Scotland

RE: HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by stuartyd11 » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:40 pm

Unfortunately the tractor has just been restored including removal of the engine sump and cleaning as well as steam cleaning of the gear box so both oils are new and clean. When i purchased the tractor it had been taken apart by the previous owner who had lost interest.I was informed that the lower engine had been rebuilt by the previous owner, which i believe to be true as there was no scoring in the bores and when the engine was put back into the tractor and started for the first time there wasn't a bit of smoke. The top end was rebuilt by myself.

My main problem is that going hunting for the leak will involve a lot of dismantling and i am reluctant to do this without at least an idea of what i'm looking for.

I'll certainly look into using 'Stop Leak' perhaps just in the engine for the time being to see if I have any joy.

Also, does the oil pressure i'm getting sound right for an engine at idle?

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db2d
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RE: HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by db2d » Tue Jun 25, 2013 10:58 pm

If the oil is black it is from the engine. The oil pressure is very low.How high is the engine oil level?
Is the engine breather clean? (On the rocker cover). Does oil leak if the engine is running?
Is the tractor parked on level ground?

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db2d
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RE: HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by db2d » Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:15 pm

"Stop Leak" will not work on your tractor. There is no oil seal on the rear of the crank only a scroll type oil return that is not in contact with the crank.

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stuartyd11
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Location: Scotland

RE: HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by stuartyd11 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:07 am

The oil level shows full on the dipstick and yes the tractor is parked on level ground in the garage. Running the engine doesn't seem to make a great deal of difference, it doesn't gush out or anything. I wil clean the breather tomorrow to see if that makes a difference.

Any ideas on where the oil could be coming from?

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db2d
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RE: HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by db2d » Wed Jun 26, 2013 6:30 am

If the engine has been removed from the tractor it could be that the cork seal under the rear crank main bearing cap is at fault.

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stuartyd11
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Location: Scotland

RE: HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by stuartyd11 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:41 am

The engine had been removed and this was my fear when i seen the leak at first. These were replaced when the engine went in but the tractor stood some time before it had oil in it. Could they have dried up and failed?

Guest

RE: HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by Guest » Wed Jun 26, 2013 9:55 am

Db2d is right, there is a 'scroll' mechanism that 'flings' the oil back but there is still a crank oil seal and these are the cork ones that db2d mentions. It may be that the scroll or the seals were installed incorrectly or that the tractor needs running for a while for the seals to 'swell' and form a good seal especially if the engine re-build has been recent and has not been put to work. Until you run the tractor enough to blacken the engine oil a bit then it will be difficult to determine where the oil is coming from. If the engine breather element is blocked then the engine oil pressure would be increased and you would be able to determine this by removing the oil filler cap and holding the palm of your hand over the opening in the tube with the engine running and see if there is any oil 'spatter' which would indicate increased oil pressure. It will be a process of elimination to find the cause but always start with the simple no spanner needed things.

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stuartyd11
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Location: Scotland

RE: HELP!!!!!! 1952 Super Cropmaster

Post by stuartyd11 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:50 pm

I have been reading the service manual for the tractor. It says that the seals should be applied with a little shellac varnish (I used Silicone Gasket) and held in place with two dummy bearing caps until this has set. I did not do this when I installed the gaskets and the engine was not 'dropped' into place as suggested in the manual it was lowered into place. The manual says that dropping the engine from a height of 2" of the frame will compress the cork seals.

Is this likely to cause the leak?

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prblake
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Location: Queensland, Australia

Post by prblake » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:16 am

As well as my interest in old Cropmasters I work in a restoration business that specialises in 6 cyl Austin Healeys. They have a similiar scroll system and cork seals to seal the main bearing cap. A common cause of this type of leak is worn main bearings. If there is clearance there then it literally pumps oil when it is running.
But we get Healeys in all the time with this leak and the biggest problem is that the owners has used modern oils which are too light for this scroll system. If you are using any modern engine oil or universal oil then it is too light for these old engines which typically used heavy mineral oils. I use 40-70 grade mineral oil in my Healey and in the engine of my Cropmaster.
The Healey does not leak at all and the Cropmaster (with old bearings)0nly drops a few drops when it gets hot.
All healey owners also worry about whether they have installed the cork seals properly. If you splashed some silicone around then I doubt this is the problem area.
Paul

John.Newman
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Post by John.Newman » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:55 am

What is the brand of this 40-70 oil Paul and who sells it in our area? I need some of this in some of my tractors too.

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prblake
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Cropmaster oil

Post by prblake » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:52 am

John
I use Penrite HPR 50 which has a range of 40-70. Auto parts shops usually stock it and i get it from my local bearing shop. I did not mention the brand in my previous post because it is made in Australia and I dont think sold in th UK. I only use it in the Croppy engine not the gearbox.

Paul

John_Allen
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RE: Cropmaster oil

Post by John_Allen » Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:13 am

Penrite oils are available in the UK, though I gather that HPR 50 is called "Classic Heavy"!

One supplier is Moss Europe:

http://www.moss-europe.co.uk/Shop/ViewP ... exID=13887

Of course, other suppliers are available!

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stuartyd11
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RE: Cropmaster oil

Post by stuartyd11 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:34 pm

Thanks Paul! I'm using 15 40 in the engine at the moment which i was advised to do by the chap at the local dealer (Mccormick dealer) so will definitely try the heavier mineral oil. Would this also be the cause of the worrying low oil pressure that i'm getting or is this likely to be a main bearing issue?

Regards

Stuart

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