880 started running rough

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Amended 19/09/18

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grapeman
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Location: North Carolina USA

Re: 880 started running rough

Post by grapeman » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:09 am

Does anyone know if I need to pull the engine to get access to the piston rod bolts?

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ollek
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by ollek » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:06 am

If you mean connecting rod bolts, then just remove the oil pan. Are you going to remove the pistons or why do you want to get to the connecting rod bolts? The pistons have to be removed from the top, making it necessary to remove the cylinder head as well

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grapeman
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by grapeman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 12:00 am

Yes going to need to take the pistons out. The compression test tells me that at least the compression rings on the pistons are bad. Cylinders may be out of spec now or glazed. So yes, need to pull the head, the oil pan, and then the pistons.

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skyrydr2
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by skyrydr2 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:36 am

In all my years of wrenching on tractors I never saw weak compression give intermittent running conditions. It was either weak at the start and stayed weak ! White smoke on a diesel is a lean burn or rinning out of fuel greyish blue is usually incomplete burning of fuel and black smoke is complete burning of excessive fuel.
White smoke with a sweet smell and taste is glycol in combustion (coolant )
Water in the fuel will give you total fits and drive you mad... dont ask me how I know... it will also give you all the same symptoms.
If it ran fine before all this trouble, I would be certain it is not a fuel issue first.

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grapeman
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by grapeman » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:55 pm

Good points Skyrdyr2. Pulling the head should tell me what I am dealing with -

If my fuel has water, how can I tell? Nothing shows in the bowl and I have replaced the filters.

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skyrydr2
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by skyrydr2 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:51 am

Sometimes it is very difficult to catch the water.. the fuel filters on these tractors are pretty crude and let water through(Cav 269 I believe? ) . Anyhow, to verify, get a good known sample of nice fresh clean fuel and put in a clean can and run the tractor from that can temporarily attached directly to the injection pump with a rubber fuel line and brand new inline filter .Gravity feed it should work.
You want to completely bypass fuel system on tractor to verify. Its ok to let return line fuel go to the tractors tank this is just a test to verify fuel. Strap your temporary tank to the bonnet and use tractor so its under a load. If it behaves and runs good.. well.. you know what needs to be addressed..

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rid54
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by rid54 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:45 pm

Water and diesel do not mix. Water in the fuel will sink to the bottom of the tank and it should be easy to drain it from the fuel tank by means of the main fuel outlet, assuming the tractor has been standing for a day or so. If there is an issue with fuel quality, the tank should be emptied and new good fuel used. Water will (of course) go past the filters, as it is not a solid contaminant.

The lift pump has a much bigger capacity than the actual fuel requirement of the engine/injector pump. The excess fuel is going back to the tank by means of an overflow system - the overflow volume being much larger than the amount of fuel used by the engine. If there is water in the system, it may accumulate in the filter bowls or at low points in the fuel system. If there are any doubts about fuel quality, drain the system completely (including the filter bowls), fill with good fuel, get new filters, bleed the system and try again.

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db2d
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by db2d » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:20 pm

Is the engine a three or four cylinder Implematic or Selectamatic ? Most fuel shortage problems occur between the tank and the input side of the lift pump.
There must be an unobstructed supply of fuel to the lift pump.

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grapeman
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by grapeman » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:44 pm

The engine is a AD3/55 (3 cylinder) selectamatic.

Thanks on the water in the fuel answers

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rid54
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by rid54 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:07 pm

As has been pointed out already (skyrydr2) water that actually makes it into the high-pressure stage of the pump and on to the injectors will cause erratic running. I hope I didn't come across as if that were not the case. Small droplets of water in the fuel can get anywhere...

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grapeman
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by grapeman » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:34 pm

No problem rid54 -

I pulled the head this morning. Nothing stuck out as being bad. Has carbon build up - yes but not extreme. The Valves are intact and proud from the surface of the head. The cylinder walls on #1 are defiantly glazed but all three measure with tolerance. So no new sleeves - just rings.

I checked the gravity feed to the pump - has good flow. Checked the sediment bowl again - looked OK. Poured a cup or two from the feed line to the pump, into a clear glass to see if in 24 hours have any separation.
Last edited by grapeman on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ollek
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by ollek » Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:44 pm

The AD3/55 engine has cylinders directly bored into the block, no slew's, wet or dry. I would deglaze the bores before fitting new piston rings. It can take ages (or for ever) for the piston rings to get run in if the cylinder walls are glazed.

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grapeman
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by grapeman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:28 am

Here is a picture of the #1 cylinder and the bottom of the engine head.

https://ibb.co/kZBV1m

https://ibb.co/nD8cgm

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grapeman
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by grapeman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:31 am

One thing I found odd and unexpected - the intake manifold had a light coat of black fuel oil specs. It is almost like the exhaust was making it through the intake valves a little. Don't have a picture right now but will post one tomorrow.

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grapeman
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Re: 880 started running rough

Post by grapeman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:06 pm

Here is a picture of the inside of the intake manifold.

https://ibb.co/hyF02R

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